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PolitiChicks: Does Rape Justify Abortion?

Friday, December 2, 2011 | Subscribe to Video Updates

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In today’s episode, the PolitiChicks talk about the one of the most polarizing issues. That is the issue of sanctity of human life and abortion. 3700 human beings will lose their life today in this nation alone. Have we become immune to the genocide that’s happening on our soil?

Is abortion okay in the case of rape? What percent of abortion is from rape?

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  • Paul

    Abortion is never ok. Ever. Not a single time.
    In the case of rape or incest – the attacker should be punished. With DNA technology what it is today… punish the evil perverts to the fullest extent of the law. In fact laws punishing sexual violence should be made much more stringent… and even perhaps, “barbaric”.
    Even when discussing the touchy “life of the mother” aspect of the debate… let me ask this… what parent would not give their life in a heartbeat for their child? What would we think of the parent who sacrificed their child to save themselves?
    I am not trying to be insenstive or rude… but if we truly believe life to begin at conception (or implantation as Newt says), then shouldn’t we treat unborn children as children?

    • JesseV

      You are correct in everything you say. However, just because thats how we feel,or what we beleive, in the cases of incest or rape it does not mean we can choose the course of action for those that have been brutally violated in this manner.

      Sorry, this is the point at which many of you diverge from what I am will willing to accept. I would have to allow the one carrying the child to make their own decision and then leave it up to God to judge whether their actions were right or wrong.

      My two cents, neither of us are right or wrong. For me though, I will not pretend to sit in God’s seat and judge those who have been victimized in the manner in which we are discussing and whether or not their choice was right or wrong.

    • http://DonPennington.info Donald Pennington

      Thank you, JesseV, for being a voice of reason.

    • NatSov_Party

      I agree for the most part, the decision of whether or not to bring a child into this world, or any, is the soul decision of the woman who will be required to give birth, her physiciam, and her husband, or person who impregnated her, if available, and no one else. I know with absolute certainty that another human being is created at the moment of consception, but until the Constitution is Amended, no rights can be inferred upon the embryo, or any other stage, until birth. Only then does the child have all the rights and privileges granted by the Constitution of the United States. I would also like to add, though conception occurs in the womb by the fertilization of an egg, there is no live until the male sperm has performed its mission. Therefore, I would submit that the life spark necessary to consumate the justation of life, comes from the male, and greater responsibilty for the nurturing and the baring of children should be placed upon the male. Even the use of threats of punitive action against them if they do not play an optimum role in the birth and raising of their issue.

    • http://lowcountry Evermyrtle

      A child of rape or incest is exactly like every other child in one respect.It is innocent, it had nothing to do with being where it is. It is a live human. That is the baby’s side of the story.

      The mother’s side of the story. I cannot begin to imagine the horror of such an event in a young woman’s life. It will take much prayer and counseling to make a decision and work through it. I believe it is wrong to kill such a child but I am not the SUPREME JUDGE. If it is wrong HE can forgive that sin just as HE forgives us of all of our other sins. As far as me being the judge, it is something like the speck in my neighbor’s eye while the whole plank is in my eye………..

    • Avril H.

      Why do you not argue that, as long as it makes the raped woman feel better, she should be allowed to kill her rapist? If she wants to kill him, he dies- if not, he lives.

      Abortion to make the raped woman fee better is no more and no less justifiable than the killing of her rapist to satisfy her feelings, and in fact murdering the rapist or incestuous relative should make a gal feel MUCH much better than an abortion.

      Why is no one arguing for this? Seems logical for those who think killing is all about feelings (i.e. if you REALLY REALLY feel bad about a pregnancy, you can kill the baby).

    • Sharron

      If a woman is a victim of rape or incest and conceives a baby…and it is acceptable to kill that baby because the mother was a victim of a horrible crime…why not kill the mother too….BOTH are victims. A ridiculous statement or idea you say…no more ridiculous than saying we need to have the Constitution tell us when not to kill a baby…. or that we cannot assume to know whether or not God wants a baby murdered… come on people… where is the common sense, not to mention morality and decency and goodness.

    • Carolyn

      Well said. I agree we should not force our own beliefs on another. It being morally right or wrong should not come into play unless you are the one that has to make that decision.

    • Sue

      Carolyn, I’m sorry but your comment has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. So, another words if I come to your house and murder your family nobody has any right to tell me I was wrong because, in your words, “it being morally wrong or right should not come into play” and I should be able to make up my own “morality” as I see fit? Wow, I can just see what the worl would be like if nobody was allowed to decide what is right or wrong only the person themselves. I for one think I shojld be able to rob jewlery stores when I want because I like jewelry — I guess that would be my choice and my right in your world!

    • RoseThistleArt

      Most people who are deciding if rape or incest is a good reason for abortion, are not survivors of rape or incest. Here is the largest study done asking actual rape/incest survivors of their views. http://afterabortion.org/2004/rape-incest-and-abortion-searching-beyond-the-myths-3/

      Most actual rape/incest survivors are AGAINST abortion and the reasons may surprise you.

      Romans 8:28 KJV And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

      ALL things…for them that love God.

    • Breezeyboy

      So let’s make abortion illegal in 99.9% of cases. Let’s make it not “pro-choice”, but “anti-rape-babies”.

      Anybody who wants to kill their child just out of choice, or because they wanted blue eyes and got brown, let’s not allow them to kill that child.

    • Al Duhan

      I totally agree. It should be left up to the victum if she could bare and live with a child, where she was inseminated by a rapist that had brutally infringed upon her rights and brutally attacked her. This in any way should only be in her call and choice. .

    • Sue

      Wrong!!! As a woman who had to live through a gang rape & becoming pregnant as a result, I can tell you the ONLY positive things that came out of the nightmare were my twin daughters, both of whom died before birth. I was being pressured into an abortion for the exact reasons mentioned on this blog. It was the most harmful advice I ever could have received. A woman can always place her baby for adoption, which is what I had planned to do. I was planning an open adoption so I would be able to know how they were doing as they grew up. Never is murder the answer to any problem. Castration of the rapist(s) is a wonderful solution, however!

    • Michael

      Terry, Since you are pro abortion, and yes, if even a little bit, you are prto-abortion, this may be hard to understand.

      Unfortunately, some crimes and other events such as accidents have long lasting consequences and effects. A car crash victim may go through years of rehabilitation for example, a murder victim’s family lives with the results the rest of their lives.

      Unfortunately, a victim of rape or incest has consequences that do not just stop as soon as the rape is completed. They may last a lifetime emotionallyand for nine months physically.

      Being a victim of rape does NOT give you the right to commit murder, even if it is in your own body. A living baby in your own body deserves no less protection than a grown child in your own home. Adoption vs. raising the baby is the ONLY choice a woman has in those circunstances.

    • http://abortion Geraldine Rafferty

      Instead of murdering the innocent baby, adoption is an option.

    • Mary S

      Abortion is NOT murder; the fetus does not have a soul until God breathes into it at birth. Jesus Christ died for the human race because of our sins; a fetus can’t sin.

    • Fr. Juniper Sistare

      Why is abortion wrong? B/c it is the killing of a child. Aborting a child that was conceived by a rape. This is still the killing of a child! End of story!

    • nifongnation

      All law is morality, and our nation is dead.

    • Mitchell

      If our nation is dead it is because of the greed and corruption among the leadership in this nation.

      It’s like trying to balance the budget by firing a few $35,000./yr teachers when the higher ranking yet less productive employees are making four times as much money.

      Conservatives try make the middle and lower class shoulder the burden of our economic crisis. They are the rapists and we want to abort their corrupt seed.

    • Matthew Holt

      Newt is one of the most hypocritical, dishonest, so-called conservatives who has supported more draconian Liberal legislation than many Democrats, including our own local Congressman.

      Newt’s personal life is no shining example of moral rectitude, and he is the last one to be lecturing the rest of us on the sanctity of anything, pre-natal life included.

    • Dolores Tamoria

      Judge not that ye not be judged.

    • Craig

      This passage is so abused. People make judgments every day. We have laws that make judgments every day. We are to judge with righteous judgment (Jn 7:25). The guide is the bible and what we are to judge ourselves (and others) by. Reference Gen 25:23, Judges 13:7, Ps 127:3, Ps 139:13 for importance of child in womb.

    • http://lowcountry Evermyrtle

      There are many, many scriptures in HIS WORD about judging.If we judge fairly we will be judged fairly. We should put ourselves in the place that some abused woman would find herself in a rape case before we jump to a judgmental attitude

    • Al Duhan

      There is no room in politics to decide any part of rape of a women, furthermore a man should have no part in this decision. It should be decided by the victum and the avenue that she alone decides. Al Duhan

    • Victoria DeLacy

      Correct. Even in cases of tubal pregnancies where the child must be removed from the body of the mother within the first trimester or soon thereafter in order to save her life, it has become possible with our new technology to save the lives of babies who weigh only a few pounds so they have a moral obligation to try to save both patients as is mandated by the Hippocratic Oath.

    • Breezeyboy

      Life begins at conception, not implantation. At conception the individual is genetically defined. Implantation does not create a new person, but rather provides an opportunity for nutrition.

    • seabee combat vet

      Actually under Christian belief, life starts at birth.It is the chinese that gave the life at conception in their world and beliefs. A chinese child is 9 months old at birth while a christian child is 1 day old at the end of the day of their birth.

    • Breezeyboy

      We’re talking medicine and truth here, not Christian vs Chinese.

      And anyway, you’re wrong. Abortion was listed as an abomination in one of the oldest Christian documents, the Didache.

      The question of when life begins in the womb was misunderstood until the modern era, when we learned about fertilization / conception in sexual reproduction. In the old days, it was thought that the man had the “seed” and the woman was just the “nutritive principle”. Life was deemded to begin at the “quickening”, when the seed came to life.

      Now we know that the man and woman both provide genetic information (equally) and body-mass (the woman more than the man)and that these come together at a moment called conception, and cell splitting begins right away. Life is then a seamless garment until death, with the mother’s uterus providing nutrition and oxygen (but not blood).

    • http://lowcountry Evermyrtle

      You are absolutely correct. Abortion is a crime against GOD in any true Christian’s belief. HE alone can make the decision of what is sin. He is still a forgiving GOD and will forgive us for all of our sins if we repent and ask HIS forgiveness.

    • Mary S

      Breezyboy, there is NO human life in the womb. It is a fetus and mother dependent until God gives it the breath of life at birth. Jesus Christ died for sinners not a fetus that cannot sin.

    • Breezeyboy

      Oh, and particularly for a Christian, life begins well before birth. Did not Elizabeth exclaim to Mary, “Who am I that the mother of my lord should come to me?” when she was only a few days pregnant?

    • Sue

      Sorry, seebee, but you’re wrong about Christians believing life begins at birth. Catholics have always believed what is taught in Scripture–“Before I was born, you knew me. You created me in my mother’s womb.” Life begins at conception. Abortion has always been considered a grave sin in the Catholic faith. It wasn’t until 1930 at the Lambeth Conference that any Protestant denomination–the Anglicans, in this case–even allowed the use of contraception. And, then, only under the most serious circumstances & only within marriage. The Catholic faith has never abandoned Scriptural teaching on the sanctity of human life.

    • Mitchell

      The Catholic Church has killed more adults than fetuses terminated in the US. Ever read Fox’s Book of Martyrs? There was a good reason that the Protestant movement came into existence along with the reformation. Because the Catholic Church assumed to run the state, the way of Christ is perpetually, “My kingdom is not of this world.” The Catholic Church is the second largest cult in the world.

    • http://PatriotUpdate Elaine Hall

      I agree with you.Look at the example of Jaycee Duggard, who was kidnapped at the age of 12, repeatedly raped, bore two of his children. She loves her kids. Where it would be rough was to be raped, then not report it then bear the child and have to deal with the man in an ongoing situation. That would be tough, but then the child could be given up for adoption. Those seking abortion need to know what happensto the baby during abortion before hearing the babies’ heartbeat.

    • Breezeyboy

      Yes Elaine, I agree with you. Easy access to abortion actually makes it easier for rapists to conceal their crimes. Planned Parenthood has been particularly involved in covering up for child molesters.

    • George

      Yes, so many couples want to adopt. Most of all saving a child. ….

    • Doug

      Never is a big word. What if the fetus is anencephalic? No brain. And what if the pregnancy is medically difficult for the woman?

      If it lives to full-term, and is born, it won’t be able to breath. It won’t be able to feel anything. It won’t be able to suck. Nothing.

      In other words, it’s legally dead the moment it’s born. And you want to forbid an abortion in those circumstances?

    • Lawrence

      One of the evangelist on wfia radio made a statement tha one sixth of one percent of rapes turn a pregancy. I also say why take it out on the baby, she can put it up for adoption. I am not for abortion or the party of death but if a woman is raped if she wants an abortion ok, but do not ask me to pay for it.

    • http://lowcountry Evermyrtle

      I am not perfect and commit sin every day and I ask GOD to forgive me every day. I would in a split second pray for a person whose life has become a “hell on earth.” I would ask my wonderful, loving GOD to forgive that girl any mistakes she might make, in her decision and ask him to be with her to guide her in that decision, to give her courage and faith that HE would take care of everything if she would allow HIM to do so, just as I would if she were my child.

    • Hal

      I believe that it is the “Victum’s Choice.” Not your or my relegious beliefs, or any law made by man.

  • M Meszaros

    I definitly think that rape justifies an abortion!!!!!!!!!!

    • Michael

      Then you think abortion, murdering a child in the womb is ok.

      Since you are pro abortion, and yes, if even a little bit, you are pro-abortion, this may be hard to understand.

      Unfortunately, some crimes and other events such as accidents have long lasting consequences and effects. A car crash victim may go through years of rehabilitation for example, a murder victim’s family lives with the results the rest of their lives.

      Unfortunately, a victim of rape or incest has consequences that do not just stop as soon as the rape is completed. They may last a lifetime emotionally and for nine months physically.

      Being a victim of rape does NOT give you the right to commit murder, even if it is in your own body. A living baby in your own body deserves no less protection than a grown child in your own home. Adoption vs. raising the baby is the ONLY choice a woman has in those circunstances.

    • Al Duhan

      I believe that is true in many cases, but in rape cases, I believe that the choice must be left to the victum. But I also believe that we must reverse Roe verses wade. There are too many people having unprotected sex and then just kill the baby. If this was stopped then sex would not be just a game.

    • Lawrence

      I agree with you. Women are using it as an alternative to condoms or whatever. Maybe they should just keep their clothes on and leave sex to married people, that of one man and one woman…..

    • http://lowcountry Evermyrtle

      This is not a case of pulling your clothes off, but having your clothes ripped off and getting raped.

    • Lois

      I agree..

    • http://abortion Geraldine Rafferty

      Murdering an innocent child is never the answer. Adoption is an alternative.

  • Greg

    I find it hard to justify pro life and support abortion for rape and insest. There are powerful forces, like the Catholic Church, that don’t even want abortion to save the life of the mother.

    • Robert Moore

      Greg:
      There are thousand and thousand of mothers that will give her own life for her child. I know that this is a very hard issue but nor the mother nor the baby deserve to die. Unborn babies are killed the most cruel way. If you have guts I invite you to see an abortion video and you will understand what I am saying. Even if we don’t like it life belongs to God.
      Robert.

    • seabee combat vet

      So why are there thousands that have abortions, just shot your argument down!!!!!

    • Sue

      My sister has been an OBGYN for 26 years. There is RARELY if EVER a case where an abortion is needed to save the life of a mother. In 26 years, working in a very well known and large hospital she has never in all those years (nor have the other 7 OBGYN’s)had to perform an abortion to save anyone. That is a talking point made common by the pro-abortion movement.

      Do some research and you will find virtually no reason that an abortion would need to be performed to save a life — it’s usually to save the mother’s LIFESTYLE!

      Of all the abortions done in the past 11 years at my sister’s hospital, EVERY SINGLE ONE was elective, performed only because the mom wanted to get rid of the baby.

      This is fact notan opinion or based on emotion or propaganda.

    • Breezeyboy

      Yet abortionists justify late term partial birth abortion for even the slightest “choice” (read “whim”). How did they come to do this? By justifying abortion in any case.

      The fact is you can never legitimately will or cause the death / destruction of another individual’s body. That body you are ripping apart does not belong to the mother; it belongs to the child. The child is genetically different from the mother, not just a body part. The baby has an independant blood supply and a complete set of organs etc etc etc (etc!).

      That PA doctor (Kermit Gosnel wasn’t it?) drifted from early abortions to late abortions and even table top murders outside the mother, why? Because after conception there is no other line to cross.

      Right now just outside of D.C. there is a late term abortionist named Leroy Carhart that performed 720 abortions on 32-week babies just this last 1 year alone. The men are serial killers and they and their enablers need to be stopped in law.

    • http://PatriotUpdate Mariana

      What ever happened to the ‘morning after’ pill? Is there a law that forbids giving it to a rape victim? Rape—morning after pill–no pregnancy, no need for abortion

    • Dolores Tamoria

      I do believe that in the case of rape one should immediately take action (don’t wait until the morning after). Now if the woman waits then if she becomes pregnant she is responsible then for the life of that child and at that point I believe No to abortion.

    • Norwalk Spectator

      Some thirty years ago, we had a couple in our church where there was an unexpected pregnancy. Due to the fact that the mother was on a strong medication, they were advised to terminate the pregnancy because the “fetus” would be terminally harmed. They were actually at the doctor’s for the procedure when one of the nurses mentioned something along the lines that 80% of the cases of this drug and pregnancies ended up with the child dying. Charlotte was off that table in a flash because earlier they had been told straight out that there was NO hope of the child surviving and a strong risk of Charlotte suffering serious complications. Their son was born happy, healthy and whole.

      Not all stories end so happily, however. Two other couples we knew carried full term only to have their child live a few hours, while we ourselves lost our little one in the first trimester. Would we all make the same choice again not to have the abortion even though we knew how it would end? Oh yes. Andrew, Robin and Alison would have been 13 this year.

    • DACnTN

      Greg, Please don’t pretend to speak for the Catholic Church, when you are clearly ignorant of its teachings. The Church does NOT hold the position you state. How foolish can you be.
      As for being powerful, well yes I guess the Catholic Church is powerful – based on being established by Jesus (God) Himself where it gets its power. If you have a problem with that take it up with God.

    • Ruth Bacon

      The word “catholic” means universal, and encompasses all who have accepted Jesus as their personal savior; that he died on the cross for THEM! However, the Roman Catholic Church which I believe you are referring to was not instituted by God; it was instituted by a Roman emperor who considered himself a follower of the One true God, and decreed that all his subjects would follow the same. Hence, those subjects intertwined many of their old beliefs into this new religion – the “traditions of men” that the Bible warns about.
      As to abortion, the church (protestants too) often change their teachings to please man rather than God. I knew a couple of families years ago, who were taught by their Catholic church that they could not even practice birth control, even if it meant the possible death of the mother. Both families had been warned by their doctors of the risk they were taking. (They, and their babies DID live, tho.)

  • Carol Goodwin

    Perhaps those who think abortion is acceptable in any case, should have been aborted when they were first in their mothers’ womb. That may sound harsh but I know there are lots of babies who were given up for adoption for whatever reasons, who are very happy their biological mothers chose to give them life!

    • Spikeygrrl

      I am one of those adoptees you mention. Nevertheless I am very much pro-choice. With a very few exceptions, this world will muddle along much the same whether or not it is plus or minus a few individuals — even outstanding individuals.

      Personally, knowing even as little as I do about the circumstances of my 1959 “closed” adoption, I would much rather never have existed at all than have been the self-evident cause of the ruin of my biological mother’s life and healthcare career…and had I been the adoption agent, I would NEVER have approved as an adoptive mother someone as twisted and unhappy as the one I got.

      Dad, on the other hand, was WONDERFUL. How he stayed with Mom I’ll never know, but maybe he wouldn’t have if there hadn’t been this darn adopted child to hold them together. I blame myself for this, too.

      Eh. Water under the bridge. They’re both dead now, and I am looking longingly forward to the day when I will be dead too. Let’s not keep perpetuating the same mistakes just because traditionally “that’s how we roll.”

    • JesseV

      For whatever reason God allowed you or someone like you say you are to live. Again, don’t judge what is. Accept God and his miracles what ever they may be, however small or large and live your life as if you are blessed.

      Easier said than done I know.

      Life is a precious thing and if what you say is true than God had a plan for you. Even if it is the simple thing of your post here today, a post that should give all reason to ponder what is right for one, is not always right or wrong for every individual or in every every situation. It sure makes me think. Thank you for that

      If what you say is true, and I don’t know you, nor have reason to doubt you. Your life has meaning and you proved it here today.

      May God Bless you and have mercy on you!

    • Avril H.

      Yikes, girl, get some counseling!

      Just because you long to die is no reason to condemn the innocent.

    • Norwalk Spectator

      I’m sorry you feel that way.

      My biological mother was an alcoholic and knew she couldn’t raise me because she’d struggled so much with my older half sister. Were my adoptive parents wonderful? Well, no, they weren’t. However, I have a family of my own now and I work hard not to make the same mistakes. I work at being a blessing rather than a burden.

  • fedup

    WRONG !!!!… RAPE AND THE CONSEQUENCE, A CHILD, IS NOT BLESSED BY G-D. ABORTION IN THIS CASE IS JUSTIFIED. Stop acting as if the baby born of a RAPE is the same. I disagree with “PAUL” The consequence of rape should be death or at least having the member completely removed. There is way too much permissive thought out there about crime. People do not change unless Christ changes them and most hate Christ that commit crime.

    • Dave

      “Fedup” . . .

      First of all, I am anti-abortion but, more importantly, I have a question for you . . .

      Where, in the BIBLE, does it say that GOD will NOT BLESS a child, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, whether the product of RAPE, INCEST, or ADULTERY ?

      SHOW ME or SHUT UP !!!

    • Know It All

      It’s right next to the part were Jesus rails against abortion. (Psss, he doesn’t)

      You should type so angrily while pretending to be Christian

    • JesseV

      Show me where God gave you the right to judge anything or shut up!

    • RoseThistleArt

      Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered ; 9 And being made perfect , he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. 11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered , seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to DISCERN BOTH GOOD AND EVIL.

    • Katy

      Are you kidding me? God gave Adam and Eve the right to choose between right and wrong.

    • Craig

      Try John 7:25 – judge righteous judgment (per the bible).

    • fedup

      I suggest you back being intimate with your doggie oh loud mouthed one. furthermore me thinks thou should have been aborted twice over so YOU SHUT UP. Not every instance is covered in scripture oh buffoonish one. There are even instances when God Himself has stated NOT to pray for some. Look it up f you can read. I will not continue this because of my temper towards IDIOTS like yourself.

  • Anthony

    If unwanted children are to be given up for adoption, then the adoption system had better be reformed. It is so hard and so expensive to adopt in the U.S. that a lot of families go outside the country where it is quicker and cheaper. I do not want to pay for a bloated unresponsive system that would swell to unimaginable size.

  • http://patriotupdate maggie

    greg: catholic church not against abortion to save mother; however, child conceived as a result of rape or incest is a human being and is innocent and undeserving of a death sentence.

    • Mitchell

      Why so priest can father more ba$tard children? And who cares what their position on this issue is? This is a decision for the state to decide and the church to put their money where there mouths and picket signs are-by taking care of the children born because of their strict policy toward their members against birth control or abortion, and by their own priest keeping their pants zipped!

  • Deb in Kyle

    I, too, had fallen for the rape and incest excuse. But then one day it hit me like a rock. Does killing the baby take away the fact that a person was raped? Does it erase the pain and memory? No, it just adds one more piece of guilt into the mix. Now aborting the rapist from this world would definitely be a plus. I believe in capital punishment. Those who argue against it but are pro-choice are sick people!

    I heard of a case today where a woman was arrested in NYC for doing a self-abortion. They called it murder. Her little boy was only 7.5 inches long when they found him in a dumpster. Maybe this will be a foot forward for the “Silent Screams”!

  • oaklady

    Briefly: Yes, rape certainly does justify abortion, imo.

  • http://warrenrosenbaum.info Warren the Wordsmith

    A touchy subject and I am not a woman who has experienced the trama of assault. But a remedy to the PTSD she may be living with could be her knowledge of the blessing that she is bringing into the world, a new life, and that in the long run, saving that life will have unforeseen blessings that she can reflect upon with new insight. God has a way of turning apparent disasters into some of the best things that happen in our life.

    • Mitchell

      Are you out of your mind? My son’s Pediatrician informed recently that medical science believes that 80% of the children born in the US are born with disorders. My son’s therapist tells me that one in 60 children born in the US are effected by Asperger’s syndrome. Five to ten years ago it was one in a thousand. As a father of two children suffering from Aspergers all I can say is that parenting isn’t easy. And both the MD and the Therapist agree that Medical Science is searching diligently and don’t know why this is occurring. So why force anyone to have a child when the odds are stacked against the child. Not to mention the costs are souring and the GOP will aggressively work to take away all funding for fear of tax hikes.

  • CHRISTOPHER

    Human criminal conduct can never justify the murder of an innocent life.

    • Mitchell

      So why are we at war in so many places all over the world, killing many innocent civilians? That is killing our economy and our standing before God!

  • Know It All

    If you won’t allow for abortion in the case of rape or incest you’re a horrible person and you’d go to Hell, if it were real. Lucky for you, it sn’t

  • AlwaysRIGHT

    Unfortunately, I say rape does NOT justify you to take a life. I say “unfortunately” because I’d hate to be the victim of that rape and have to carry that baby inside me and raise it, knowing half its genes are from the SOB who raped me. Doesn’t seem fair at all. Seems horrifying actually.

    And btw, I’m a guy. I’m just saying… I can see why a woman would want to end that growing life inside her if it is from the monster who raped her.

    • http://www.putoldonhold.com B

      Yeah, but killing the baby who didn’t choose to be conceived doesn’t punish the rapist.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      NO B, it doesnt punish the criminal, but your way It punishes the victim for being unlucky enough to be raped.

    • Katy

      Awoman who israped it truly a victim. But butchering and unborn human being is not the answer. Abortion is buchering

    • JesseV

      Why condemn the woman carrying the child? If she feels condemned all you are doing is condemning her more. But as long as you feel better I guess its okay.

      Again I say it is not for you to judge in these cases. if it is abortion for abortions sake and because someone got pregnant because they are less than careful, than I say that is wrong and everyone of you are right in your convictions.

      However, How dare any of you be so sanctimonious as to entertain that you may know what God thinks or how he judges.

    • Dice70

      Excellent Jesse! Very well said!

    • Craig

      We do know what he thinks – it’s called the Bible.

    • RoseThistleArt

      Murder is wrong. The mother, nor the father started that heart beating – it was God. It is His soul He placed in that flesh body. Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die

      Matthew 10:And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

      For a woman or anyone else to think they have the right to decide to actively stop that heartbeat, is pre-meditated murder of the flesh body of a soul they have never even met, let alone that has done her/them any harm. This puts her in a very sorrowful place for the rest of her flesh life and her soul in one when in heaven, wanting to be in the presence of God, but there is that soul of that child with Him. Has that action against that baby’s soul been reconciled to the point they can both be together with God?

      To uphold the Word of God and say murder is wrong, is a blessing they may not understand at the time.

      Jesse, you are high on judging everyone here as being judgmental, but you neglect the remaining Scripture. Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. If the Word of God, Jesus, is the Judge, then upholding God’s Commandment of ‘thou shalt not murder’ is something I’m willing to be judged by God for. If I, in ignorance, was about to break a Commandment, I would want the all the hard facts, pointed out from God’s Word, not the kind of sick sweetness that would send a soul to a hell pit of sorrow.

      That said, for anyone who has been misled by the abortion money making propoganda or misled by satan himself, Jesus laid down His own flesh life in order to let you know how much God wants you with Him in eternity. Repent to Him, repent to the child you may meet in heaven someday.

      Ezekiel 18:23 KJV Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

      Meet Gianna Jessen who is a woman who was a baby who survived an abortion attempt on her life http://youtu.be/kPF1FhCMPuQ and Part 2 http://youtu.be/k8B1nKGIAeg

      How is that possible that she is now a woman if an embryo isn’t a person?

  • Troubles-a-brewin

    I still believe in the case of a rape, the woman has the right to choose, depending on weather or not the protoccols are obesrved, like repoting the crime imediately, rape kit at the hospital, and pressing charges against the criminal, I think its amazing that someone could be forceably raped and traumatized, then made to carry a child she never wanted for nine months of her life being reminded every day by this growing child inside her about the rape and humiliation she went through, I think thats crule and unusual punishment for someone who did nothing wrong!

    • http://www.putoldonhold.com B

      A child conceived of rape is innocent. Killing the child does not punish the raper. Life is not fair. Bad things happen to good people all the time. Like being hit by a car and ending up in a coma.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      Yea but you dont have to wake up and find yourself pregnant.

    • Breezeyboy

      Okay, then as we all agree, let’s criminalize ALL abortion that is NOT the result of rape or incest. That would be about 99.9% of them.

      THEN, after those are criminalized, we can argue about what to do about children of rape cases.

    • Jack Hotchkiss

      Not once in your comment did you mention that you would be ok killing an INNOCENT child.
      You and I as well as that Mother and Father are not innocent in any way. That Baby is TOTALITY innocent in ALL ways, And yet you would kill that child to save face of the Mother.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      Not just to save face, maybe her life!

    • Breezeyboy

      Never happens, not ever. But we can save the baby’s life.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      You saying it never happens doesnt make it true it does happen LIAR.

    • Breezeyboy

      It’s not cruel and unusual punishment because it’s not a punishment. Preventing people from killing their children is not a punishment, but a mercy.

      Punish the rapist.

      Protect the child.

  • Ann Marie

    My father’s neighbor was raped and conceived a child sixty eight years ago. She gave birth to a healthy baby boy and raised him as a single parent for several years. Later she married, but they could not have children as her husband was sterile. Her son grew up and became a teacher and coach, married and had three children. Had she had an abortion at the time of her rape, she would never had the pleasures of family life as she enjoys with her son and his family. Point? You never know what life will deal you; always err on the side of life, and you won’t be left wondering, “What if….”

  • Ron

    I used to think abortion after a rape was ok.
    I have since changed my mind. As I age, I really value life. That child didn’t ask to be created by rape. God wanted that child to enter into the world…..It must be saved. No abortion is acceptable.

  • http://www.putoldonhold.com B

    Aborting a child conceived as a result of rape does nothing to punish the criminal.
    It destroys innocent life and compounds the crime.

    • Breezeyboy

      I agree with you B. Actually, it’s the rapists who really love abortion because they get away scott free. (And can drive their young victims straight to Planned Parenthood.)

    • Dice70

      Planned Parenthood…hmm. Last time I read about a rape in the paper, there was no mention of the woman having the option to PLAN for her violent assault.

      You’re an idiot.

  • JesseV

    One question. When did God delegate his seat of judgement to any of us?

    Its not for us to judge. Judge not lest you be judged.

    • Avril H.

      Sooo, you who don’t judge;

      Do you plan on judging the rapist, or is that too “judgmental” for ya’ll?

    • Dice70

      I believe in an eye for an eye. Pound his balls flat with a rubber mallet & cast him down amongst the sodomites in prison.

    • Breezeyboy

      Who’s judging? The fact is we are obligated to defend the least of our little ones.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      Im not judgeing Im saying every woman has the right in this aspect to make her own choice we will all answer for our decisions in front of god. This is why we were givin free will.

    • Breezeyboy

      Is every choice equally good? Should everything be legalized? Murder? Theft?

      Free will is obvious (unless you’re a materialist). By your argument, Rape should be legal because it’s “Free Will”.

      No, “choice” does not legitimize anything, unless the thing being talked about is a legitimate action.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      So you feel freedom of choice is OK as long as its your choice.

    • RoseThistleArt

      You forgot the rest of that Scripture…

      Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again

    • singin’ mama

      Excuse me, but I don’t see anyone judging a person’s intentions or their innermost heart – they have been “judging” an overt action. The last time I checked, people of goodwill are called to do that and allowed to judge an action as right or wrong, good or bad… or do you only read parts of scripture? Or perhaps you don’t hold any credence in criminal justice.
      What? So now we are not to “judge” murder as something that is wrong to do? how about… arson? theft? rape? This false logic then leads to not judging these (actions) either…
      This liberal use of “judge not” is often (wrongly) used to attempt to shut people up who (rightly) happen to point out that a person’s/organization’s actions are wrong! The sad part about all this is that too many good people are allowing this to continue and (wrongly) shut up because the “judge not” crowd happens to squawk the loudest…

    • Craig

      Good point singin’ mama

  • Jack Hotchkiss

    Discussing this matter with a neighbor;

    His comments were “it’s OK to abort an not born(UNborn)baby if the cause of the pregnancy was by way of Rape.” As I pointed out why kill an innocent child for the sin of the father? If that were the standard that we lived by, we would all be dead. Let him that has not sinned cast the first stone. there are way too many vacant empty (of children) loving homes that shout out “I”ll take them”, please don’t kill em let us have them.
    How many Doctors, Judges, President’s, Congress people, Medical healers and Preachers have we killed? Enough to fill a City, a State, in fact all the killed unborn could be our 51st state.
    Abortion is a politically correct word for murder and killing.
    You can read this because your Mother did not ABORT you!!!

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      I repeat your still insisting on recking havok on a woman whos done nothing wrong. Just because you think you could survive something like this happening to you doesnt mean every woman can.

    • Breezeyboy

      You guys hear about Siri? She won’t help you get an abortion. I wonder if that’s a parting gift from Steve Jobs? I’m glad he was not aborted.

    • Dice70

      “How many Doctors, Judges, President’s, Congress people, Medical healers and Preachers have we killed?” And yet we still have people filling those positions. Sorry, not an intelligent argument for the discussion topic because I could just as easily say, how many murderers, rapists, drug dealers, thieves, child molesters & other general monsters have we allowed to be born.

      Mr. Hotchkiss, take a look at what Spikeygrrl has to say & see if you still want to uphold your argument.

  • Troubles-a-brewin

    Its not just a rape and the mental aspects of it, its the physical side, morning sickness weight gain stretch marks, and with any pregnancy the possability of hemmoraging and death, this is alot to expect from a victim who I repeat did nothing wrong!

    • RoseThistleArt

      Being drown in a saline solution or ripped apart piece by piece is a lot to expect a baby who has done no wrong to go through.

  • Matthew Holt

    I believe there is a fundamental woman’s right to NOT be forced to bear a child when conception was forced upon her by a criminal assault and rape.

    It seems to me that in all species, the female refuses the sexual advances of many males, before choosing the one with whom she will mate, in order to produce offspring.

    Human females, IMO, have that inalienable right, and forcing them to carry a rapist’s child, is a cruel and inhuman punishment, heaped upon the initial brutality of the rape itself.

    Have you unconditional pro-lifers lost all sense of right and wrong in your mania to control the choices others can make?

    • Breezeyboy

      Killing a child is not an inalienable right: Life is.

      Troubles-a-brewin, you’re a rapist aren’t you? Rapists love abortion.

      Okay then, so let’s agree that we should outlaw ALL abortion (except in the case of rape or incest). Let’s get that done tomorrow, okay?

      Thought not. You’re pro-whim.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      A rapist NO I have two children of my own and love them dearly thats why me and my wife had them, my wife and I are against abortion I just dont agree with forceing a woman to go through with something she has no choice in, I think your a foolish child who think he should always get his own way.

    • Breezeyboy

      The ploy of being against something but being unwilling to make it illegal has been too common. Again, it depends on the nature of the action under discussion.

      When you are talking about something as evil as murdering an unborn child, then you need to work up the willingness to fight it. We are not talking about what color to paint your house here.

      Planned Parenthood should be using their 400 million in taxpayer dollars to HELP those unborn children, not destroy them.

      I’m a child and so are you, and so are they. Love them both.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      An abortion in this case I prefer to respect the judgement of the Victim and she will have to answer to God, not me or you thats why he gave us free will If he did not intend that he would not have givin it to us we need to respect his Knowledge. and our laws.

    • Craig

      To ‘troubles a brewin’. You are correct that we have free will. We have God’s Word as background on how we should treat the unborn. We are free to make the right choice/free to make the wrong choice, in this you have said correctly we have free will. If someone truly repents after making a wrong decision, God will also forgive. You are using the free will argument as an excuse to commit murder.

    • Benji

      Matthew,,,I totally agree! Before expressing ones opinion, everyone should sit back for just a minute and imagine being raped!, and as horrible as that is alone then imagine finding out your pregnant by your rapist, then to be told YOU cannot get ab abortion, you now have to carry and give birth to this unwanted baby,,,,that is simply wrong! A womam has a right to make her own decisions as to whether or not she wants to put her body thru 9 months of stretching beyond belief, to give birth to a baby who was NOT planned or wanted at that time!!! The woman should have the right to decide what happens with her own body!!!

  • The Question Guy

    You people are missing the point to the question: WHY are we (humans) here? IF you are religious, then you will probably say “To worship God, to be able to go to Heaven when we die”.

    So, the purpose is to go to Heaven? Correct?

    So, WHERE do aborted or killed young children go?

    Do they go to Heaven? IF SO, then people should be HAPPY about aborted children, since they go straight to Heaven and THAT IS SUPPOSEDLY OUR PURPOSE ON THIS EARTH… CORRECT?

    So, what is all the whining about abortion? It is GOOD for the aborted baby, not having to put up with all this crappy world we live in.

    Isn’t that what most religious people believe? That aborted babies go straight to Heaven? Then WHY the whining? We are NOT talking about the mother… God will judge her.

    Abortion should NOT even be an issue, since the whole thing is about going to Heaven, correct?

    Do they, or don’t they go to Heaven? IF they do, then everyone SHOULD be REALLY happy about aborted babies.

    • Craig

      You have some really perverted logic. Not up to us to decide when to take an innocent life just because someone doesn’t want a few stretch marks.

    • Mary S

      If people say that there is life in the womb means that they believe that God created sin at conception – however, the fetus in the womb does not have the ability to sin.

  • AL Orange Park, FL

    Life period!

    • Breezeyboy

      Love them both. Mother AND Child!

  • AL Orange Park, FL

    You can NOT MURDER the child because it’s the result of a rape either incest or not. The child is STILL a human person. MURDERing the child IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. Period.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      So If this woman dies during this pregnancy shouldnt you be arrested for murder for forceing her to go through this.

    • Breezeyboy

      No. We’re all going to die. That’s not murder. You can’t murder someone to save someone else. The fact is, with modern medicine you can ALWAYS save both.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      Once again, not always, you speak in absolutes and there are no absolutes.

    • Breezeyboy

      For you, the only absolute is “choice”. Brilliant. Some absolute.

      I am pro-choice on tungsten light bulbs, by the way.

    • Breezeyboy

      But I will confess to being absolute on Murder and Rape. They should both be illegal.

    • Mary S

      The erroneous doctrine that there is soul life in the womb is one that has been built up by various religious denominations, especially in the last 40 years. It is, however, a doctrine that is not scripturally sound. The fact that we have people literally killing each other over this false doctrine only goes to show the ignorance of man. Actually the Bible hardly mentions abortion at all! Again, a step by step analysis of the situation is needed.

      If you are going to start looking at the issue logically, you must start with the origin of life. Where does it start? Conception? At some point in the womb? At birth? We know that we are obviously physically alive in the womb. At a certain point there is a heart beat, there is brain function, there is development of limbs. However, that does not answer the question of when does soul life begin. When does the soul materialize, the part that makes us human beings, and separates us from soul-less animals. The answer can be found in the very word that means life in the Hebrew. NESHAMAH. Guess what the word also means? “Breath”! That the word means life, and also breath should indicate to us automatically there is something going on here.

  • Steven Dyke

    How would you feel if you were RAPED? You are lucky you dont’t know or lived through it!! I believe it is the womans choice in that case. What right do you have to judge anyone? read your Bible, ” JUDGE YE NOT YEST YE BE JUDGED” You nor I have the right to judge what should be done!!!!!!!!!!!!11

  • Mitchell

    Is it ok to abort a Muslim? Is it ok to lie, cheat, steal, commit adultery or judge? Hypocrites! You that are without sin, tell me how to live. The rest of you mind your own business!

  • RoseThistleArt

    Here is the full report in case the link doesn’t work.

    Rape, Incest and Abortion: Searching Beyond the Myths
    David C. Reardon, Ph.D.

    “How can you deny an abortion to a twelve-year-old girl who is the victim of incest?”

    Typically, people on both sides of the abortion debate accept the premise that most women who become pregnant through sexual assault want abortions. From this “fact,” it naturally follows that the reason women want abortions in these cases is because it will help them to put the assault behind them, recover more quickly, and avoid the additional trauma of giving birth to a “rapist’s child.”

    But in fact, the welfare of a mother and her child are never at odds, even in sexual assault cases. As the stories of many women confirm, both the mother and the child are helped by preserving life, not by perpetuating violence. Sadly, however, the testimonies of women who have actually been pregnant through sexual assault are routinely left out of this public debate. Many people, including sexual assault victims who have never been pregnant, may be forming opinions based on their own prejudices and fears rather than the real life experiences of those people who have been in this difficult situation and reality.

    For example, it is commonly assumed that rape victims who become pregnant would naturally want abortions. But in the only major study of pregnant rape victims ever done prior to this book, Dr. Sandra Mahkorn found that 75 to 85 percent did not have abortions. This figure is remarkably similar to the 73 percent birth rate found in our sample of 164 pregnant rape victims. This one finding alone should cause people to pause and reflect on the presumption that abortion is wanted or even best for sexual assault victims.1

    Several reasons were given for not aborting. Many women who become pregnant through sexual assault do not believe in abortion, believing it would be a further act of violence perpetrated against their bodies and their children. Further, many believe that their children’s lives may have some intrinsic meaning or purpose which they do not yet understand. This child was brought into their lives by a horrible, repulsive act. But perhaps God, or fate, will use the child for some greater purpose. Good can come from evil.

    The woman may also sense, at least at a subconscious level, that if she can get through the pregnancy she will have conquered the rape. By giving birth, she can reclaim some of her lost self-esteem. Giving birth, especially when conception was not desired, is a totally selfless act, a generous act, a display of courage, strength, and honor. It is proof that she is better than the rapist. While he was selfish, she can be generous. While he destroyed, she can nurture.

    Adding to the Trauma

    Many people assume that abortion will at least help a rape victim put the assault behind her and get on with her life. But evidence shows that abortion is not some magical surgery which turns back the clock to make a woman “un-pregnant.”

    Instead, it is a real life event which is always very stressful and often traumatic. Once we accept that abortion is itself an event with deep ramifications for a woman’s life, then we must look carefully at the special circumstances of the pregnant sexual assault victim. Evidence indicates that abortion doesn’t help and only causes further injury to an already bruised psyche?

    But before we even get to this issue, we must ask: do most women who become pregnant as a result of sexual assault want to abort?

    In our survey of women who became pregnant as a result of rape or incest, many women who underwent abortions indicated that they felt pressured or were strongly directed by family members or health care workers to have abortions. The abortion came about not because of the woman’s desire to abort but as a response to the suggestions or demands of others. In many cases, resources such as health workers, counselors and others who are normally there to help women after sexual assault pushed for abortion. Family pressure, withholding of support and resources that the woman needed to continue the pregnancy, manipulative an inadequate counseling and other problems all played a role into pushing women into abortions, even though abortion was often not what the woman really wanted.

    Further, in almost every case involving incest, it was the girl’s parents or the perpetrator who made the decision and arrangements for the abortion, not the girl herself. (See Accomplices in Incest for an example.) None of these women reported having any input into the decision. Each was simply expected to comply with the choice of others. In several cases, the abortion was carried out over the objections of the girl, who clearly told others that wanted to continue the pregnancy. In a few cases, victim was not even clearly aware that she was pregnant or that the abortion was being carried out.

    “Medical Rape”

    Second, although many people believe that abortion will help a woman resolve the trauma of rape more quickly, or at least keep her from being reminded of the rape throughout her pregnancy, many of the women in our survey who had abortions reported that abortion only added to and accentuated the traumatic feelings associated with sexual assault.

    This is easy to understand when one considers that many women have described their abortions as being similar to a rape (and even used the term “medical rape), it is easy to see that abortion is likely to add a second trauma to the earlier trauma of sexual assault. Abortion involves an often painful intrusion into a woman’s sexual organs by a masked stranger who is invading her body. Once she is on the operating table, she loses control over her body. Even if she protests and asks the abortionist to stop, chances are she will be either ignored or told that it’s too late to stop the abortion.

    For many women this experiential association between abortion and sexual assault is very strong. It is especially strong for women who have a prior history of sexual assault, whether or not the aborted child was conceived during an act of assault. This is just one reason why women with a history of sexual assault are likely to experience greater distress during and after an abortion than are other women.

    Research also shows that women who abort and women who are raped often describe similar feelings of depression, guilt, lowered self-esteem, violation and resentment of men. Rather than easing the psychological burdens experienced by those who have been raped, abortion added to them. Jackie wrote:

    I soon discovered that the aftermath of my abortion continued a long time after the memory of my rape had faded. I felt empty and horrible. Nobody told me about the pain I would feel deep within causing nightmares and deep depressions. They had all told me that after the abortion I could continue my life as if nothing had happened.(2)

    Those encouraging, pushing or insisting on abortion often do so because they are uncomfortable dealing with sexual assault victims, or perhaps because they harbor some prejudice against victims whom they feel “let it happen.” Wiping out the pregnancy is a way of hiding the problem. It is a “quick and easy” way to avoid dealing with the woman’s true emotional, social and financial needs. As Kathleen wrote:

    I, having lived through rape, and also having raised a child “conceived in rape,” feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest. I feel that we’re being used by pro-abortionists to further the abortion issue, even though we’ve not been asked to tell our side of the story.

    Trapping the Incest Victim

    The case against abortion for incest pregnancies is even stronger. Studies show that incest victims rarely ever voluntarily agree to abortion. Instead of viewing the pregnancy as unwanted, the incest victim is more likely to see the pregnancy as a way out of the incestuous relationship because the birth of her child will expose the sexual activity. She is also likely to see in her pregnancy the hope of bearing a child with whom she can establish a truly loving relationship, one far different than the exploitive relationship in which she has been trapped.

    But while the girl may see her pregnancy as a possible way of release from her situation, it poses a threat to her abuser. It is also poses a threat to the pathological secrecy which may envelop other members of the family who are afraid to acknowledge the abuse. Because of this dual threat, the victim may be coerced or forced into an unwanted abortion by both the abuser and other family members.

    For example, Edith, a 12-year-old victim of incest impregnated by her stepfather, writes twenty-five years after the abortion of her child:

    Throughout the years I have been depressed, suicidal, furious, outraged, lonely, and have felt a sense of loss . . . The abortion which was to “be in my best interest” just has not been. As far as I can tell, it only ‘saved their reputations,’ ‘solved their problems,’ and ‘allowed their lives to go merrily on.’ . . . My daughter, how I miss her so. I miss her regardless of the reason for her conception.”

    Abortion businesses who routinely ignore this evidence and neglect to interview minors presented for abortion for signs of coercion or incest are actually contributing to the victimization of young girls. Not only are they robbing the victim of her child, they are concealing a crime, abetting a perpetrator, and handing the victim back to her abuser so that the exploitation can continue.

    For example, the parents of three teenaged Baltimore girls pleaded guilty to three counts of first-degree rape and child sexual abuse. The father had repeatedly raped the three girls over a period of at least nine years, and the rapes were covered up by at least ten abortions. At least five of the abortions were performed by the same abortionist at the same clinic.3

    Sadly, there is strong evidence that failing to ask questions about the pregnancy and to report cases of sexual abuse are widespread at abortion clinics. Undercover investigations by pro-life groups have found numerous cases in which clinics agreed to cover up cases of statutory rape or ongoing abuse of minor girls by older men and simply perform an abortion instead.

    In 2002 a judge found a Planned Parenthood affiliate in Arizona negligent for failing to report a case in which a 13-year-old girl was impregnated and taken for an abortion by her 23-year-old foster brother. The abortion business did not notify authorities until the girl returned six months later for a second abortion. A lawsuit alleged that the girl was subjected to repeated abuse and a second abortion because Planned Parenthood failed to notify authorities when she had her first abortion. The girl’s foster brother was later imprisoned for abusing her.4

    Finally, we must recognize that children conceived through sexual assault also deserve to have their voices heard. Rebecca Wasser-Kiessling, who was conceived in a rape, is rightfully proud of her mother’s courage and generosity and wisely reminds us of a fundamental truth that transcends biological paternity: “I believe that God rewarded my birth mother for the suffering she endured, and that I am a gift to her. The serial rapist is not my creator; God is.”

    Similarly, Julie Makimaa, who works diligently against the perception that abortion is acceptable or even necessary in cases of sexual assault, proclaims, “It doesn’t matter how I began. What matters is who I will become.”

    That’s a slogan we can all live with.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Originally published in The Post-Abortion Review 2(1) Winter 1993. Copyright 1993 Elliot Institute.

    Learn more: See the book Victims and Victors: Speaking Out About Their Pregnancies, Abortions and Children Resulting From Sexual Assault.

    Educate others: Download and share our free Hard Cases: New Facts, New Answers fact sheet.

    Citations:

    1. Mahkorn, “Pregnancy and Sexual Assault,” The Psychological Aspects of Abortion, eds. Mall & Watts, (Washington, D.C., University Publications of America, 1979) 55-69.

    2. David C. Reardon, Aborted Women, Silent No More (Chicago, IL: Loyola University Press, 1987), 206.

    3. Jean Marbella, “Satisfactory explanations of sex crime proved elusive,” Baltimore Sun, Oct. 31, 1990; M. Dion Thompson, “GBMC, doctor suspected nothing amiss,” Baltimore Sun, Oct. 31. 1990; “Family Horror Comes to Light in Story of Girls Raped by Father,” Baltimore Sun, November 4, 1990; Raymond L. Sanchez, “Mother Sentenced in Rape Case,” Baltimore Sun, Dec. 6, 1990.

    4. “Planned Parenthood Found Negligent in Reporting Molested Teen’s Abortion,” Pro-Life Infonet, attributed to Associated Press; Dec. 26, 2002.

  • OAHS

    I do not think that I, being a male, have the right or understanding to determine what a woman can do in the event of incest or rape so I believe it is the woman’s decision although I do not favor abortion.

    • Breezeyboy

      If women have such a lofty superiority, then maybe aborting a boy should be okay but aborting a girl should be a crime.

      The fact is we were ALL babies once. To promote their murder is the ultimate hypocrisy.

      Reagan said “I notice that all the people in favor of abortion happen to have already been born”.

  • Ernest T.

    I believe with reproductive rights come reproductive responsibilities. A woman should be able to have as many children as she can afford to care for. We tax payers should not have to pay for anyone’s children except our own. All pregnant woman have made choices. They chose to have unprotected sex or in the case of rape they chose not to report to a medical care facility where a rape kit could gather evidence of the crime and a saline flush could stop a pregnancy from happening. Incest is more problematic in that the child might not know what has happened to them. Children should be informed that no one has the right to touch there body unless they agree and that pregnancy is possible even if precautions are taken. In order to save a mothers life the mother should be able to chose a self defence abortion. The reason we join a society is to protect the innocent, no one is more innocent than the unborn. No abortion unless it saves a life.

    • Mary S

      “And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, (Hebrew word “to pass through, to drop out”, this word does NOT in any way imply pre-mature birth) yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth” (Exodus 21:22,23)

      Notice that the penalty for producing a miscarriage in the woman by the men involved in the fight is a FINE! Not life for life, eye for eye (the Hebrew analogy for capital punishment, as everyone well knows). The case of capital punishment is rendered only in the case of someone dying as a result of their struggles. It is obvious the fetus is not looked on by God (who is the one giving these laws, btw), as being a person, or having the same rights as a person!

  • “Annie”

    A woman has a right to abort a child if she was raped. AL Orange Park you are wrong. The Mother did not ask for this. This is a crime! The Mother would be reminded of the rape all the rest of her life and so would the child. When did we start making the criminal the righteous one? I also think the Federal Government needs to keep their nose out of people’s personal lives. They should have nothing to say about it. Leave it up to the states to decide.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      Not states the indivdual.

  • http://PatriotUpdate Mariana

    Isn’t there something called the ‘morning after’ pill? You would think that someone would have already figured out that if a rape victim is given this pill, there would not be any pregnancies as a result of rape, therefore, there would be no need to have this discussion.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      Not everyone is imformed.

    • http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/10/opinion/10mon2.html Breezeyboy

      The morning after pill is an abortifacient. And it kills girls. Just look around for Holly Patterson

      http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/10/opinion/10mon2.html

      http://www.nrlc.org/factsheets/FS15_pilldanger.pdf

      But you don’t care about those girls, do you?

    • Breezeyboy

      The morning after pill is an abortifacient. And it kills girls. Just look around for Holly Patterson, Brenda Vise, Channelle Bryant, Vivian Tran, Orianne Shevin, etc.

      But you don’t care about those girls, do you?

    • Norwalk Spectator

      I believe the drug is called RU-186. It causes a spontaneous abortion and requires medical supervision. Sadly, it has been used as a method of birth control and women have died because of it.

      In the case of rape, the victim can get access to this through a hospital.

      In the case of incest, it can get complicated very quickly because that can involve minors. Also, the perp could be a parent or close relative and keeping the victim confined in one manner or another.

      There was a horrible story out of Mexico recently where the victim was a 5 year old girl. Yeah, you read that correctly. 5, not 15. The perp was her step father and the pregnancy was too far along to abort when the mother found out that it was incest. This is an old, sin sick world we live in.

    • http://www.kidon.com/media-link MalikTous

      It’s called RU486 and is produced in France…

  • Alfredo

    No rape does not justify abortion because it is still a life and a child that took no part in it. The child should be given to the church. They will take him.

    • Dice70

      That’s a fine sentiment. But what if the unwilling mother does not wish to carry this child to term. Will “the church” also carry this child in its womb through the pregnancy, restore the woman’s health & dignity & set her safely on the path of life she was on without interruption? What? Ohhh, “the church” does not have a womb…oh, it can’t carry the baby through the pregnancy & deliver it? Hmm… Since it seems the church can only offer sentiment & support I suggest it step back after offering such & let this unwilling mother make her choice.

    • Katy

      You are so wrong about the church. No it doesn’t have a womb, but they do accept and encourage the woman to have the child, including financial help. You need to find a chirch that is Christ like!

    • Mitchell

      “Church that is Christ like” What church might that be. Apparently the so-called Christians in America, primarily party of the Republican and especially the Tea Party, want to see austerity measures for every man, woman and child who cannot afford austerity measures. This is not Christ like. Christ said the birds have their nests and the foxes their holes, but I don’t have anything to lay my head on. This is not the example of modern American Christians, in general!

  • Dice70

    My belief. If God looks after us, why would he allow a waste of flesh & bone to rape a woman. I don’t believe he does. I believe the man who does such a thing has the Devil inside him. Therefore, the offspring from him would be the offspring of the Devil. Now, that I’ve been philosophical for a moment, let me tell you what else I believe.

    Listen up all of you “holier-than-thou-no-excuses-ever-pro-lifers”. I believe abortion is wrong IF it is used as a method of contraception or as a “backup plan”. It should not be the answer for a woman who is promiscuous or goes out & “makes an error in judgment” on a Saturday night. That being said, I DO believe it to be a viable solution to a “forced pregnancy” such as a rape victim could experience. The mental anguish that raped woman goes through after being raped is unfathomable by anyone other than another rape victim & even then everyone deals with things differently. For some, that child would be seen as the miracle it is & it would strengthen her. But for what I believe to be the larger consensus, I think the child would be a painful reminder of what happened & could be the recipient of the undue symbolic retaliation. And, I’m sure no one wants that.

    What happens in this circumstance IS for the affected woman to decide. Up to the point of being raped, she had no intentions of being impregnated & now that she is by a lowlife POS who FORCED his will upon her. SHE and ONLY SHE should have the right to choose what happens from that point forward. Not you, not me & damn sure not our legal system. They’re a stampede of fools out of control anyway. When it comes judgment day, she will answer to God & if HE deems her unworthy of entering heaven for this action, that is HIS will.

    To quote Jesse V…”Judge not lest ye be judged.” This, my friends, is a doorway with hinges swinging both directions.

  • Radcorad

    It’s very easy to say what you would do when not confronted with the actual issue. I don’t think anyone but the mother has the right to choose when rape is involved. She has to live with it either way.
    If this country is going to stop abortion, then we had better figure out how to take care of all these babies. The only pleasure some people have these days may be sex.
    Over crowding is not an issue yet, but we still have children going hungry right here in the USA.
    Let us work on fixing the system and let the Lord judge a mothers decision. We are not qualified…

  • Vicki

    I do not approve of abortion but I am torn. What good does it do to let a child be born and then that child is horribly abused (and I mean horribly!!) throughout their life?
    Adoption would be the way to go but again, the system will need to be changed. Not all adopted children are treated well.
    I also do not believe that the government should not be telling people what they can and cannot do. They already do too much of that now.

    • Mary S

      Abortion should not be an issue in politics. It is between God, the woman and her doctor.
      The government sticks their nose into too many areas of our life already.

  • Oscar Schaer

    Every woman should have the choice as to abort or deliver. Why should taxpayer pay for a bunch of bastard children that are being manufactured to obtain child support checks, food stamps, welfare on the dole.
    Let legal abortion stand.

    • Terry Houston

      I have to agrre but I think we are in the minority on this thread.

  • James Mo

    ABORTION MUST NOT BE LEGALISED AND MUST NOT PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT BUT

    IT IS A PRIVATE MATTER FOR INDIVIDUALS TO DECIDE

    • Breezeyboy

      Where have you been the last 38 years? Abortion has been fully legalized in the U.S.A. since 1973.

      The only requirement is that you’re not supposed to let the baby’s screams be heard.

  • Troubles-a-brewin

    In the end we will all answer to God for our decisions and he will be our final judge I hope we can all live with our decisions.

    • Breezeyboy

      Yes troubles, we agree. That is why we need to stop abortion. It is such a grievous sin that we can actually save people from Hell by stopping it.

      Making murder and theft etc illegal is the government’s legitimate business, and it helps save souls too!

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      I still think that when a womans been raped that decision is between her and God not anyone else.

    • Mary S

      Women will NOT go to hell if they have an abortion. The only way one will go to hell is if they do NOT believe in Jesus Christ as their savior. Believers will comment the same sins as unbelievers. It depends on whether they are growing spiriually and make more choices not to sin.

  • http://ActionAmerica.org/ John Gaver

    I cannot imagine the complete inhumanity of a monster, who would FORCE a woman who was raped, to undergo 9 months of pregnancy and perhaps raising a child that she was not prepared to have, in the first place, as PUNISHMENT for an assault that she was totally unable to avoid.

    Would I advise an expectant mother, who was raped, to keep her child? Most definitely, YES. But I am not such an inhumane monster that I would punish her for being raped, by FORCING her to have the child.

    It is this horrible, inhumane, unbending attitude toward abortion, in the case of rape, that keeps me from donating to any of the anti-abortion groups. I have PERSONALLY intervened and prevented an abortion… I did it… Myself… The child that resulted from that birth is my Godchild.

    If you have not personally intervened and prevented an abortion, one-on-one, with the mother, then don’t pretend that you know what it’s like. I’ll always be out there fighting to prevent abortion. But only an inhumane monster would PUNISH the victim of a rape and FORCE her to have the baby against her will. Change her mind. Then it won’t be punishment. It will become a gift.

    BTW, the young lady with whom I intervened is now middle-aged and continues to be very happy that she had the baby. She had not originally planned to get an abortion. In fact, she had made up her mind to have the baby. But it was her Baptist Deacon father, who flew into a rage and tried to FORBID her from getting an abortion, that changed her mind. Her attitude was, “I’m 19 years old and you can’t forbid me from doing anything.” It took me two weeks of late-nite (and a few all-night) talks and even escorting her to the abortion clinic, to reverse the damage that her sanctimonious father did with just two words – “I Forbid”. At the abortion clinic, when her name was called, she looked at me and asked, one last time, if she was doing the right thing. I wanted to shout, “NO! NO! NO!” But I knew that would be the worst thing that I could do, so I told her that it was her life and her decision and that for good or bad, she was the one who would have to live with the consequences of either decision. She thanked me for being there for her, got up and walked through the door to the back and my heart sunk. But that sinking feeling didn’t last long. It was just about the time that the full impact was hitting me that the door from the back burst open, she came running out crying, squeezed me tighter than a wrestler and sobbed, “Uncle John, I’m going to be a mommie!” (I wasn’t really her uncle, but was a good friend of her father). When her son was born, I went to see her, at the hospital and she squeezed my hand tightly and thanked me for not telling her what to do. She said that if I had told her that she was making a mistake, at the abortion clinic, she would have gone through with the abortion. She said that if it had not been for me, her son would have never been born. It was then that she told me that she named her son after me.

    The sad note to all of this is that in the 20 plus years, before her father dies, she never again talked to her father and her son has never did get to know or even see his grandfather. Furthermore, her father, who was a good friend of mine, immediately ceased communication with me. I imagine that he was embarrassed about the whole situation. Knowing him as I did, I know that he was so sanctimonious that he would never admit that he was wrong, so the only thing left for him was to distance himself from anyone who knew about the situation. So in the end, he lost a good friend – a friend who was responsible for preventing his daughter from getting an abortion – and he never saw his grandson, nor did he ever see his daughter get married a few years later, nor did he ever see his two granddaughters, from that marriage, nor were any of his progeny present at his funeral. But being the sanctimonious, imperious autocrat that he was, he went to the grave knowing that he was right and never admitted that he had almost destroyed his daughter’s life and almost caused his grandson’s life to be taken, with just two words – “I FORBID”, instead of “I UNDERSTAND”.

    I’ve seen the pain and the fear, first hand. I can’t imagine how many hundred fold that pain and fear are multiplied, in the case of rape or incest. That’s why I’ll never support a total ban on abortion in the case of rape or incest. That would be cruel and inhuman punishment. Instead of hosting talk shows or protesting on the streets, perhaps these pious women should be out trying to change the minds of women who are pregnant by a rapist or a relative. Don’t PUNISH those women. Instead, teach them how to turn what they thought to be punishment, into a gift. Then they’ll make the right decision. I know this to be true.

    • Breezeyboy

      Punish the abortionists and the rapists first.

    • Mary S

      The rapist should be put to death but the abortionist has not commited murder for there is no human life in the womb; only biological life. The fetus is not a human being until it comes out of the womb and God breathes the breath of life (NESHAMAH) into its nostrils.
      The fetus is mother dependent and cannot think; therefore, it cannot make decisions or sin. Jesus Christ died on the cross for sinners not a fetus. After birth one’s soul is God dependent and when they reach the age of accountability they can make the decision to believe in Jesus Christ or not.

  • http://www.kidon.com/media-link MalikTous

    The biggest ‘sin’ is letting a secular government have any say whatsoever in the question of abortion. The woman who has to deal with carrying a fœtus for 9 months or not should be considered the lead authority on each case, and society should only be concerned with insuring she survives intact to initiate a later desired pregnancy or gets full support for it should she see it through.

    • Breezeyboy

      The job of the government is to secure and defend our liberties. One of those liberties is the right to life. The right to life extends to children.

    • Mary S

      There is no human life in the womb; only biological life. God gives life at birth when he breathes the breath of life into their nostrils. Have you ever seen a new born baby breath in before it breaths out?

  • Terry Houston

    Yes for rape and incest. Why should a woman’s life be ruined or otherwise controlled because some sick dick wants to procreate or otherwise sexually torture a woman? Then he could file for custody too….what’s wrong with this picture. It happens. A woman should be totally in control of what goes in and what comes out of her body and when. No one else.

    • Breezeyboy

      What about if the baby is a girl? Does the woman have the right to kill the girl?

      You see, your analysis is forgetting someone.

    • Terry Houston

      It does not matter the would-be sex of the would-be child…that would-be child knows no sin and will see us all in heaven without having to suffer this life.

  • Rick L

    Abortion is fundamentally a moral, not a political, issue. Because America is a Judeo-Christian nation, Americans believe that morality comes from God, not from government or from man. So what does the Bible (God) say about abortion? Therein lies the correct answer to the abortion debate in America. Until we return to the Bible for moral answers, and the Constitution for political answers, we are a nation adrift.

    • Mary S

      There are scriptures that support abortion.

  • Carol Fryer

    Abortion in any form is so horrible to me. Can you imagine someone taking a tiny baby and slamming it against a wall, and yet they allow some abortionist to do unthinkable things to this tiny baby. That being said, this is where I absolutely detest Congress. They are so unconstitutional to be arguing this at a federal level. Congress is so into preventing us from doing anything about atrocities like this because they keep it hung up where it doesnt even belong. States should be taking care of issues like this. It would be easier and more affective to deal with our local leaders on these things rather then some cold hearted person we will never meet in our lives up in Washington.

    • Bill Holtzclaw

      So, when your daughter is gang raped by the brothers in the hood, you will accept this baby against your daughter’s wishes?

  • Lois

    In today’s world, there is no excuse for an abortion. There is so much birth control available…no excuses. Why abortions? Irresponsible people.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      So your saying it was irresponsible of the girl to be raped, Im sure she would be glad to know that, you should be the one to tell her.

    • Bill Holtzclaw

      What is the prefered birth control for rape? That is the topic! Pay attention!

  • Christinaloca

    The moment you allow the government to tell you what to do with your body or to govern morality is the point you have LOST YOUR MIND!!!!! While I completely disagree with abortion, you can not force people to believe the same as you! Most people disagree with abortion based on religious beliefs; I believe that while Jesus might be inclined to tell someone that abortion was wrong, he would love that person unconditionally. Everything He did was about kindness and love! To the person that posted that you could save people from hell by outlawing abortion, please read John 3:16; you do not go to hell by having an abortion, you go to hell by not accepting Christ as Lord and Saviour. I also personally know someone who had an abortion due to rape and you cannot believe the amount of added pain brought to her by other peoples’ judgement of her. Don’t tell someone they are wrong, tell them Jesus loves them and try to put your feet in their shoes for a change. Bottom line is I DO NOT WANT ANY GOVT. ESPECIALLY THIS CURRENT ONE TELLING ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE!!!!!

    • Mary S

      Cristinaloca, you are a person with reasoning. I don’t believe people should use abortion as a means of birth control but I do not believe it is murder. God is the judge and we are to have impersonal love for all mankind. It is not who what they are but who and what you are that makes the difference.

  • Janice Fortin

    After a rape, if a D & C is performed, conception does not occur. It is avoided. That seems perfectly moral and sensible to me. Gang rape should be so treated as well.
    To allow a pregnancy to even take place is
    totally irresponsible.

  • Blake

    This is truly a sensitive issue. I am what I consider to be an ultra conservative however in the case of rape or especially incestuous rape then there is a degree of question. Not being a woman I can’t imagine the thought process they might go through. In the case of incest it could prove the child be mentally impaired or worse.
    consequently I think the woman’s perogative be considered completely after all it is a decision between the woman and God. In either of the above mentioned cases I could not pass judgement.
    Finally I also think the gal that uses abortion as a method of birth control should be sterilzed. Finally it is a travesty to bring more children in to this world especially if there is not a place for them to be taken care of and loved. Just sayin !

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond
  • Bill Holtzclaw

    That is a decision that only the person who was raped can answer. It is between that person and their Maker to determine, not society or government. Stop meddling in other people affairs!

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

    Abortion victim begs: “Don’t Make the Same Mistakes I Did”
    by Rick Jones

    Issue Date: November/December 1995
    Michelle was 18 when she got pregnant. She had already enlisted in the Air Force, so an abortion seemed to be her only alternative. Because she didn’t know the secrets about abortion, Michelle was about to make several serious mistakes.

    When she asked to see the ultrasound, she was told it “wasn’t allowed.” Upon learning that her baby was nine and a half weeks old, she began doubting and asked to see her friend, but that “wasn’t allowed” either.

    Michelle was told that the abortion would cause some “discomfort,” like a strong menstrual cramp. Afterwards, she recalled that it was more painful than anything she had ever felt. She remembers feeling like her insides were being literally sucked out of her body.

    Michelle went into shock, and post-abortion trauma set in as she came face to face with the realization that she had murdered her baby. Her life became a shambles. Fortunately, three years later, God began the healing process. Today, her plea to teens is simple, “Don’t make the same mistakes I did.”

    Tragically, Michelle is not an isolated case. In America alone, 68.3% of all high school seniors have engaged in sexual intercourse, contributing to over 1.5 million abortions per year. Why do so many girls go through with it? Mostly, it’s because nobody is getting the brutal truth about the abortion industry into their hands. They aren’t learning facts like:

    Abortions are a billion dollar business.
    It’s a living baby, not a blob.
    You may never be able to get pregnant again after having an abortion.
    Parents!… Pastors!… Youth workers!… We MUST get these facts into the hands of teenage girls before they and their unborn babies become the next victims of the money-hungry abortion industry.

    • Mary S

      We are living in sad times when people think with their emotions instead of the Word of God.

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

    Abortion victim begs: “Don’t Make the Same Mistakes I Did”

    Michelle was 18 when she got pregnant. She had already enlisted in the Air Force, so an abortion seemed to be her only alternative. Because she didn’t know the secrets about abortion, Michelle was about to make several serious mistakes.

    When she asked to see the ultrasound, she was told it “wasn’t allowed.” Upon learning that her baby was nine and a half weeks old, she began doubting and asked to see her friend, but that “wasn’t allowed” either.

    Michelle was told that the abortion would cause some “discomfort,” like a strong menstrual cramp. Afterwards, she recalled that it was more painful than anything she had ever felt. She remembers feeling like her insides were being literally sucked out of her body.

    Michelle went into shock, and post-abortion trauma set in as she came face to face with the realization that she had murdered her baby. Her life became a shambles. Fortunately, three years later, God began the healing process. Today, her plea to teens is simple, “Don’t make the same mistakes I did.”

    Tragically, Michelle is not an isolated case. In America alone, 68.3% of all high school seniors have engaged in sexual intercourse, contributing to over 1.5 million abortions per year. Why do so many girls go through with it? Mostly, it’s because nobody is getting the brutal truth about the abortion industry into their hands. They aren’t learning facts like:

    Abortions are a billion dollar business.
    I

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

    Patriot Update,
    you continually censor the truth…………

  • Mitchell

    Justify? Republicans’ supposedly want smaller government and less governmental control, but they pretend to be the moral standard of humanity. Consequently, they want to force their morality into our government and into our homes. Frankly, we “The people” are better off without their “holy wars”!

    Wasn’t there a woman, in Afghanistan, who was recently imprisoned for being raped. Does anyone else see the similarities among religious zealots no matter what the religion?

    I believe in God, just not your God. I believe in Jesus, just not your Jesus. I believe in our government as long as she “justly” keeps out of my conscience, and remembers her constitutional vows.

    • john j

      Why not just say what you mean , instead of talking in riddles !… Mitchell .

    • bluejacket

      A crime is committed: RAPE.

      The liberals want the death penalty for the innocent victim, not the criminal.

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

    Most people are well aware that over a million babies a year are killed in U.S. abortion clinics. What is just coming to light is what happens to some of them after the abortion. Investigators are finding that selling the parts of these babies has become a half-billion dollar industry and growing.

    • Troubles-a-brewin

      You have totally gottin off track.

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

    Federal law prohibits the sale of human tissue or body parts, but this industry has found ways to make it a lucrative business. Several companies now operate to deliver to researchers, select body parts “harvested” from fresh fetus “cadavers” warm off the abortion table. In fact, witnesses from inside the industry indicate that some aborted babies need a little help to die so they can be “harvested.”

    Rather than paying for the parts directly, they pay a “site fee” for space in the abortion clinic where their “technicians” carve up the babies to fill the orders for specific parts.

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

    Instead of a price list for body pieces for sale, they list a “fee schedule” to obtain, prepare and deliver a liver, leg, spleen, ears, eyes, spinal column, or even a complete “specimen.” The claim is that this is just the processing costs and no profit is involved. However, one owner of such a company admitted that the “fee” was based on “what you can sell it for.”

    As horrific as this sounds, some claim that good ultimately comes from using this tissue in research to cure diseases and prevent deformities. But what starts out as an American holocaust only becomes worse.

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

    It turns out that parts from late term babies are more valuable for research. So, the abortionist is tempted to delay the abortion as long as the mother will allow. This, along with more complex procedures to preserve the baby intact, raises the risk to the mother.

    Will it be easier to persuade the mother to have an abortion if she is told that she can donate the baby to research?

    The questions raised have international implications, also. World wide, there are an estimated 45 million abortions performed each year. In the poorer countries, will the women be tempted to provide body parts on demand to better their standard of living? One company owner claimed to be planning expansion into Mexico where the supply would be less expensive.

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

    Of course, if we are just highly evolved animals as the evolutionists teach, then what difference does it make? But life is a precious gift of the Creator. Only under certain circumstances are we allowed to take it away, as in legal executions. But abortion is not something we are allowed in God’s law. Destruction of innocent life is forbidden by scripture and carries severe penalties.

    The sin of abortion only leads to more sin, greed and disregard for fellow humans. In Hitler’s holocaust, undesirables were considered human waste to be used for slave labor, bizarre research, or disposed of in the cremation ovens. Is the American holocaust any different? Undesired babies are considered waste, their little bodies simply tissue for the “researcher” or disposed of in the incinerator.

  • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

    Censored again…

    • nancee

      what did you say that got it cancelled??

    • Katy

      Thank you Raymond for telling it like it is!

  • Michael O’Flaherty

    Yes, rape justifies abortion if the woman so wishes.

    • Sue

      No, Michael! The worst thing that a woman who is raped can do is submit to more violence! Murdering her unborn child doesn’t solve a thing; studies show that it only creates more problems because of the guilt over killing her child that a woman experiences from abortion. See my comments on this site about my personal experiences. I also have a friend who was raped in 1978 & became pregnant as a result. She gave birth to a daughter who became a state piano champion in high school! Her daughter is now married with 3 children of her own. See what abortion kills–it’s results never end! You need to think about this issue very carefully.

    • David

      The rapist should suffer, the mother should not suffer the additional physical and emotional pains of an abortion, and the baby should be allowed to live. My adopted son’s birthmother is recovering from the rape committed by his birthfather knowing that her son is loved and well cared for. She made the right choice for herself, her son, me, my wife, and everyone of our family members.

    • russ

      NO WAY. There is no reason a woman should be subjected to carry and deliver the demon seed of a rapist.

      she was violated and you want her to be reminded of that assault for her entire life?
      for what?

    • Phil

      Wow, oh no lets go along with murdering a defenseless little baby, that’s sure to forever make this woman feel better. That’s not even sound reasioning, much less the fact it goes against what GOD tells us. A rape is more than enough trama for any woman to endure, so your solution of adding murder on the list of her trama is the worse advice anyone could ever give a woman already struggling to even survive. If you realize what the trama for life rape is to a woman then think about the devastating trama of murder. Who has raised this generation of accepting murder?

    • cl

      wow I don’t think my niece has ever thought of herself as a demon seed. No, she knows she is a child of God, made to know Him, love Him, and serve Him. People hurt people, God is truth and the devil is deception.

    • John Longhurst

      Great job Sue in stating the case for life.
      People who don’t already need to understand this viewpoint. If enough people were to do that we’d have a “fighting chance” to at least
      seriously curtail the current slaughter of the unborn.

    • Retired Marine

      Sue, I am sorry to hear you were raped, that your carrying the child to full term is an outstanding accomplishment, and shows your resiliance fortitude. I applaud your comment.

    • Donald DeHoff

      Nice story but you did not cover the whole issue. Many rapes occur within a family setting, that opens up pandora’s box as to how close the relative is, which could cause genetic problems. Also, many of those raped do not want the memory looming over their heads for 9 months, particularly if there was extreme violence or racial issues involved.

    • Phil

      If one doesn’t want a memory looming over the remainder of their lives, they should think and control their members before such a henious act. So to make the criminal act go away and not embarras the criminal, lets kill the evidence???
      unbelievable!! If God so chooses, then the criminal should have to deal with what they’ve done and not just dump it all on the victim, that already has more than enough hurt and truama for ten life times. Geesh, too many went to Hilary’s “it takes a village to raise a child class”. It needs to be stopped, not covered up, period.

    • http://naver Samurai

      No it doesn’t moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Larry

      So Michael, you think the baby should die for the father’s sin?

    • grossyi

      Murder is justified after the commision of a crime? How long after? 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years? Is life resulting from a crime less a life? My Mom was right,”Two wrongs don’t make a right”. Shame on us.

    • http://www.realcolorwheel.com Real Color Wheel

      A “morning after” pill should be enough.

    • Kathy

      I fully agree. The morning after pill, or a trip to any E.R. will stop a pregnancy. Wouldn’t it be better to stop it then,than kill it later?,

    • ald

      OK YOU have the baby!

    • Jackie

      You seem to be laboring under the misconception that life is supposed to be “fair”. It’s not, it’s actually a test and if you murder a baby, you fail.

    • http://www.seekerstemple.com Bert

      So it’s not sopposed to be fair for the mother, who is a person, but somehow it must be fair to the unborn and unwanted fetus?

    • Frank

      Actually we all fail the test! Jesus makes up for our failures, even the failure of an unwise abortion. But I see your point.

    • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

      Abortion is murder regardless of circumstance.
      God calls it murder.

    • Mary S

      God does NOT call it murder since a fetus does NOT have a soul until God breathes the breath of life to the fetus at the time of birth. If you still don’t believe that God creates life at birth, let’s take a look at a very important passage in the Old Testament:
      “And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, (Hebrew word “to pass through, to drop out”, this word does NOT in any way imply pre-mature birth) yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth” (Exodus 21:22,23)

      Notice that the penalty for producing a miscarriage in the woman by the men involved in the fight is a FINE! Not life for life, eye for eye (the Hebrew analogy for capital punishment, as everyone well knows). The case of capital punishment is rendered only in the case of someone dying as a result of their struggles. It is obvious the fetus is not looked on by God (who is the one giving these laws, btw), as being a person, or having the same rights as a person!

    • Roberto

      “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting the child leaped in her womb.And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and exclaimed with a loud voice cry,’Blessed are you among woman,and blessed is the fruit of your womb”
      Luke1:41,42
      What feel good,wishywashy church you belong to Mary?

    • Mary S

      Roberto, a very strong Bible Doctrine church that believes what the Bible teaches and not on emotionalism and what “man” thinks. There is NO life in the womb; only biological life until God breathes into the fetus the breath of life at birth. Jesus Christ died on the cross for sinners not a fetus. After birth one’s soul is God dependent and when they reach the age of accountability they can make the decision to believe in Jesus Christ or not.

    • Mary S

      Luke 1:15
      “For he (John the Baptist) will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother’s womb.” Luke 1:15 [NASB]

      “EK KOILIAS used again here is inadequately translated in verse 15, “in the womb”. KOILIAS is the ablative singular of KOILIA, “womb.” The ablative case preceded by the preposition EK denotes separation. EK must be understood as connoting separation: “out from” or “away from.” The phrase in question should be translated, “yet [in the future] separated from his mother’s womb.” Luke, the human author, is continuing the connotation of separation found with the use of MIBETEN in the Old Testament and EK KOILIAS in the LXX. In other words, the ablative of separation indicates John must be born before he can be empowered or endued by the Spirit.”
      Luke 1:41 and 1:44
      “And it came about that when Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” Luke 1:41
      “For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy” Luke 1:44
      The misunderstanding in the passages is that the baby seems to be responding in joy. Let’s use a little common sense here. Even if the baby was responding to Mary’s voice, and even if there was soul life in the womb, the action of a fetus responding in “joy” is not possible, logically. However, many Christians in an emotional overzealous state would love to ascribe developed characteristics of human joy to a developing fetus. However the verse does not imply that the baby heard Mary’s voice. It implies that Elizabeth heard her voice. Elizabeth then became excited, and the fetus responded due to the quickened pulse of Mary. We could then see that it is possible that Elizabeth is making a little joke with Mary about the baby responding “for joy”, but the context of the passage actually infers that it was Elizabeth’s “joy” that caused the baby to respond due to a neuromuscular response called “Moro” or startle reflex. (i.e. the word “for” in Luke 1:44 is better rendered “because of” in the Greek)

    • Roberto

      So Mary, this bible based church you attend seamed to have left out “Thall shall not kill”,and if there’s no life in the womb,what is it? death??…Shame on you for calling yourself a Christian…You’re doing nothing except doing Satan’s bidding.

    • Phil

      Roberto, actually John The Baptist was filled with the baptisim of the Holy Ghost because of Mary, Jesus’ mother entering into Elizabeth’s home and Mary carrying Jesus in her womb. Just in the presense of Jesus, John The Baptist was filled with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. How wonderfully blessed to be in the Lord Jesus’ presense. Thanks for the reminder.

    • toosmarttovoteGOP

      Wow. Truth and accuracy on this website. How depressingly rare. Thank you, Mary.

    • Clif

      so you are into circular logic eh? see ya at the clinic!

    • Mary S

      ToosmarttovoteGOP; thank you however I am a conservative Republican and a stong believer in what the Bible teaches and not what people say is right or wrong. There is NO human life in the womb only biological life. Jesus came to die for the sinful human race; not a fetus that cannot sin. Think from Bible Doctrine not from your emotions.

    • Clif

      mary, we might all be better off if your mother had been raped and she chose to have your little fetus self cast away to the dust and the void. am i right or wrong?

    • Mary S

      Clif, how totally emotionally rediculas. If you would learn what the Bible says about a human being you would know that Jesus came to die for sinners; not a fetus that cannot sin. Abortion is not murder but it should be done before it has chance to become a living soul when God breathes into its nostrils the breath of life.

    • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

      Wrong Mary S

    • http://abortion Geraldine Rafferty

      Michael O’Flaherty, abortion is NEVER justified.

    • JimRed

      So you believe in punishing an innocent third party for the crime of another? Sorry, can’t buy it.

  • Sue

    I was in this position 5 yrs. ago & due to the “counseling” I received from a sexual assault “counselor,” I nearly aborted my twin girls. Thankfully, a priest-friend talked me out of killing my girls. In the end, they both died before birth. But, I now look at their short lives & my struggle to love them in spite of the horrific manner in which they were conceived, as the only “blessings” that came out of that experience. I have 2 little saints in heaven, & I still love them very much! I would never have forgiven myself if I had murdered them. Just because I was grossly violated & beaten did not give me the right to murder anyone, especially my own daughters.

  • Bonnie Blue

    What I would like to know is how can they say that if a man kills his pregnant wife he is committing DOUBLE Homocide (murder)while chosing to abort(killing)your baby is OK?

  • Bob Thayer

    This is the decision of the rapee. To quote: “If the woman so wishes.” Too many issues prey upon such a decision – including the religeous aspect.

  • Steven in CA

    I never cease to be amazed at how supposed ‘conservatives’, who claim to want to reduce governmental intrusion into people’s lives, do a 180 degree turnaround on the issue of abortion and want Big Brother to tell women whether they’re allowed to terminate an unwarranted pregnancy, even if it’s the result of rape or incest. Also, none of these folks seem to understand that going through a 9-month preganancy is a lot different than deciding whether or not to keep a gift box that lands on their doorstep.

  • BobinPa.

    Well. it seems to me that the Fetus or Baby gets “Death” for the act. Just exactly does the “Rapist” get for the crime. ???You can bet it’s not “Death”. Seems like a Phoney sorry Law to me, thought up by some Pinhead. If the Baby dies, Why not the Rapist??, Seems like a way to cut down on Rape if the Rapist is taken out.

    • Margie Foster

      And guess what Robin, I don’t know if you are Bible person, but, GOD does require a rapist to receive the same judgment as a murderer. Death! But, because we have so many wimps and politically correct people in our country, a rapist never gets what “it” deserves.

    • http://www.seekerstemple.com Bert

      I think she should have a chioce about the baby, but the Rapest should die.

    • Mary S

      I believe a rapist should be executed for the crime he committed.

  • Richard

    Women exercise their right of choice regarding their bodies when they choose to engage in activities that lead to pregnancy. Once pregnant the decision about abortion belongs to the baby, after all it is his or her body.

    • Steven in CA

      Responding to Richard, and leaving aside the entire issue of whether Big Brother should get involved in the choice issue generally, a woman who was raped is NOT in the same category as women who”choose to engage in activities that lead to pregnancy”. Same for incest, which in most cases involves psychological pressure upon a young girl by a close relative who is in a position of power over her. Also, what about statutory rape: the law clearly states that a girl under the age of consent cannot legally “choose” to engage in sex, because she is deemed to lack the age and experience necessary to make the decision as to whether or not to engage in sexual activity. If she can’t legally choose to engage in sex in the first place, how can she be viewed as choosing to engage in activities that lead to pregnancy? If you follow Richard’s argument to its logical conclusion, then there cannot be any such thing as statutory rape if the female, no matter how young, “chose” to engage in sex!

    • Gail Cohen

      Right on Richard – a woman has many choices – to have sex if married or single to use the pill,condoms, diaphragm, IUD, rhythm method whatever – the baby has no choice – so they need to be protected from those who do not understand that the baby is an individual human who has a right to life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness

    • nancee

      interesting comment!! most girls that see a sonagram decide not to abort-especially if you tell them the sex- it becomes a ‘baby girl or boy’ then-thats why the left fights so hard to keep the girls from seeing one-one girl said to me -when i saw his lil pee pee i couldn’t do it!!

    • http://abortion Geraldine Rafferty

      What about seeing the little heart beating.

    • Clete

      An interesting report, more mothers deliberately choose to abort a girl based on gender than a boy. Talk about gender discrimination!

    • Donna

      Sorry, but you are not talking rape here, stay with the subject! Here we go blaming the woman again!!!

    • http://www.seekerstemple.com Bert

      An unborn, unplaned and unwanted “person” should not have the right to force a woman to drain and distroy her body.

    • Katy

      Your key word is PERSON. Not dog or cat. It won’t ruin a womans body, and after that person is born, their are plenty of people with open arms to raise that child.

  • Bj

    As a retired OB assistant I was faced with this issue on occassion. While pregancy was possible and did happen the trauma of bringing a child into the world from rape doesn’t always have the outcome of “having a state piano champion”. Some of the women that go thru rape have enough to deal with and then to find out they’re pregant’s more than they can handle. There’s medical evidence to support that not all women who have ab’s are going to suffer from the stress of having an ab done. But why should the attacker live? The guy(s) need to be tarred, feathered, castarated, and executed on the town square for violating a woman that way. Very rarely do you see a rapist apologize for what he’s done. But all in all, it’s up to the woman to make her choice and not up to the Courts or the Federal Govt.

  • Chris P

    Why would you listen to these clowns?

    They’re all clueless.

    • Jackie

      You must be looking in a mirror.

  • Duane

    yes rape, the woman should be allowed to have her choice.

    • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

      Abortion is murder regardless of circumstance.
      God calls it murder.

    • Kathy

      I agree, a child is a blessing no mater what the circumstances are!

  • tim ut

    Sin is defined by choice god gives us freedom we choose to sin when two adults have consented to have sex their creation is their responsibility and murder if aborted but if one had no choice it is not a sin and there should be no baby forced into a unlawful birth fornication and adutery are a lawful birth they both choose

  • Kenneth Renouard

    rape and incest are the only occasions along with medical conditions, that justify abortion. To bring a child into the world conceived in hate is one of the greatest sins. To be made to raise the child herself or to foster it off on someone who does not know what they are getting is criminal.

    ken r

  • http://Yahoo Toni

    I love you ladies! Thank you for your willingness to tackle the hard stuff and stand on your convictions! I fully understand the human desire to see abortion as acceptable for a girl/woman who has become pregnant by rape; HOWEVER, if you believe abortion is murder, and I do, then the circumstances which caused the pregnancy are of no consequence…. hard line, I know. And many, I am sure, will take exception to my stand. Still, I believe His word: “God causes ALL things to work together for good, for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.”

  • BobinPa.

    It seem Rape has always been a reason given to legalize abortion by the Pro-Choice crowd. But if conception by Rape is only one half of one percent, I think that in itself shoots down that argument for abortion. I think if its Legal to kill the Baby in a Rape case, then it should be legal to kill the Rapist also.

    • Tom

      It would be, if the idiots would allow the death penalty. And of course, cathing the guy in the act would make it defense of another person’s life and safety, thus justifible.

    • JimRed

      Did you ever notice that the women who scream loudest for abortion “rights” are those least likely to need one?

    • Richard William Faith

      Yes, that amazes me too.

  • http://Bellsouth Mark Frederick

    Rape or incest are the ONLY TWO REASONS TO GRANT AN ABORTION and NOTHING ELSE, when are women going to understand that it is MURDER and thats it. Even the woman that started the court battle now states that she was wrong and she travels all over the U.S. saying so.

    • Bj

      What’s your stand on when a woman with a mental challenge gets pregant by rape What then? It happens.

    • nancee

      most mental illness s are not inherited are they- look at pres .clintons brother billy[remember billys beer!!] and pres kennedy had a mentally ill sister-so no-

    • Donna

      I am not to sure mental illness is not passed down. We had a woman in our church that had mental issues and she got preg,by who we don’t know. Well, when her son was born guess what….his mental illness was worse than hers. The boy was killed in a mental instutition a few years ago.

    • Holly

      Just because a mom has special needs or is mentally challenged, it doewn’t mean that the baby she carries is any less of a person. The mom is a valid person and so is her unborn baby. Double shame on the rapist for taking advatage of such a person.

    • http://abortion Geraldine Rafferty

      The unborn baby still has THE RIGHT TO LIVE. Murder is never the answer. How about giving the innocent baby up for adoption to childless couples who would love that baby? Use your head.

    • Clete

      It depends on the degree of challenge, if it’s to the degree of inability to understand and make an intelligent choice it would negate the “victims” ability to make a choice, therefore – the baby should live on the grounds no choice was made!

    • Kathy

      Mentally challenged people are allowed to marry and have families, most do. They are given help by family members, and outside help. In most cases the children are just fine, no mental problems at all.

    • Katy

      Mentally challenged women are often the victims of rape. It happened to a friend of mine and her parents loved her through it and helped her raise a beautiful, mentally normal child

    • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

      God calls it murder.

    • Mary S

      Give scripture to back up your belief.

  • http://Bellsouth Mark Frederick

    Rape or incest are the ONLY TWO REASONS TO GRANT AN ABORTION and NOTHING ELSE, when are women going to understand that it is MURDER and thats it. Even the woman that started the court battle now states that she was wrong and she travels all over the U.S. saying so. This is not a repeat statement.

    • BobinPa.

      Well, if you think it’s OK to kill the Baby, what do you think should happen to the Rapist??Why is it OK to kill the Baby and NOT the Rapist. ???

    • russ

      no one is killing a “baby”. After ‘conception’ it is a handful of cells. That’s it.
      No woman should ever have to give birth to the seed of a rapist.
      maybe when some self righteous men get raped and are forced to have kids will they get a clue.

    • Katy

      WOW, a handful of cells!?!? Wrong! This is a human b
      eing with potential..not a potential human being!!!

  • http://www.AllisonKnight.com AKnight

    If, in the case of rape, the woman visits a decent hospital within a few days of the rape, a medical procedure which is simple, clears the uterus of the lining and eliminates a possible pregnancy. That’s why a woman who is raped should seek medical help immediately.

  • Mary S

    Soul life is given by God, not generated by the mother, or mysteriously made to be.
    Soul life is given by God, at birth. There is no soul life in the womb, only biological life.
    Murder cannot apply to something which does not have a soul.
    A large number of births are still-born (born dead upon birth). It is obvious in these cases, God has made the decision not to impart soul life to the fetus, and the fetus cannot function outside of the womb without a soul to sustain it (i.e. The fetus is sustained by the mother in the womb, not the soul)
    Jesus Christ died on the cross for sinners not a fetus. After birth one’s soul is God dependent and when they reach the age of accountability they can make the decision to believe in Jesus Christ or not.

    • jfb

      Mary S: I know why you’ve rationalized the notion that “soul” life begins at birth. It allows you to reationalize the cause for rape/incest. But clearly–no where can it be implied by any Christian Doctrine that life begins at birth. Pro-abortionists will continue to rationalize for the sake of their own self-interest on this issue. I understand that. But how does one explain to God when one stands before Him, that I had a right to be God???? Pray.

    • Mary S

      jfb, I don’t rationalize anything; I believe what the Word of God says not what man thinks about life.
      Eccl 3:1-8 There is an appointed time for everything. Your life can be a blessing and there is a time for every event under heaven–
      A time to give birth and a time to die; (No life in the womb.)
      Time for people is at birth, not in the womb.
      God gives life only at Birth.

    • jfb

      There are several times when God speaks about life in the womb (and not a biological blob of flesh and bones). You’ll never admit to “rationalizing” your belief in abortion; the truth is what it is regardless of what you believe, and there’s no arguing the point with those that refuse to accept the truth. But for your sake, I pray you come to know the truth one day. Take care.

    • LadyinRed

      To Mary S.

      And, you know exactly when a soul is stuffed into the body…how? My Bible tells me that God knew me when I was being knitted together in my mother’s womb and even then had a plan for my life. Perhaps you should do more research.

    • Mary S

      Other passages in the Old Testament also indicate to us that God gives life to us. (Job 33:4), (Ezekiel 37:1-6). Absolutely nowhere in the Bible does it state that the soul “generates itself”, or “is imputed at conception”. Nowhere! We know that God gives us the gift of life, and imputes this life to our human bodies. So we have God giving us a soul, and that soul (life) being equated with breath (what we do when we are born). Just as God gave Adam soul life by breathing the breath of life into his nostrils, so each and every member of the human race is individually given the breath of life at birth
      Job 7:7 “Remember that life is but breath”

    • Roberto

      Some Christian you are Mary…How long have you been playing God.

    • Mary S

      Actually, Roberto, you are playing God by judging me. It does not matter to me if you believe in abortion or not what matters is that you learn God’s Word and not the emotionalism of bleeding heart feel good self righteous bigots that hurt what the Bible teaches and leading people to Jesus Christ.

    • Roberto

      I’m not judging you,I’m judging you’re statement…You’re implying that you have the right to decide if a child in the womb should live or die.Only God should decide that.By your very statement you are playing god…Satan was very verse in the Bible also…Who do you think you’re fooling Mary???It certaintly isn’t me.
      “You will know them by the fruits they bare”.

    • Mary S

      Emotional thinking people are usually the ones who love to condemn other people even though their own sins are overlooked. My belief is from the Bible not what people think. There are too many emotional teaching churches that don’t teach the Word of God and therefore their flock is uninformed and our Nation is suffering from it. It is for this reason that God will not bless our country for too many have turned away from God and the true teaching of His Word. Judge not, Roberto, for that is what you ARE doing.

    • Roberto

      Actually by you accusing me of judging you,you are actually judging me…I am merely calling a grave sin a grave sin…What you’re saying is the taking of human life inside the womb is not sin…What I’m saying is,that statement of yours can only come from an evil spirit(Satan)Not The Holy Spirit(God)…If you interpit that as judging you,than I can’t help you and so be it.

    • phere

      God is life. We are all God’s temple. The choice is not ours!

    • http://ATT WAYNE

      PHERE I THINK YOUR COMMENT IS WHAT I READ INSTEAD OF MARY’S SO I GUESS YOU AND I AGREE.
      WAYNE

    • http://ATT WAYNE

      DECLARE THE TRUTH I THINK YOUR COMMENT IS WHAT I READ INSTEAD OF MARY’S SO I GUESS YOU AND I AGREE.
      WAYNE

    • jim 28th reg.

      Tho we are given the choice to honor that temple or defame it.

    • nancee

      DOES AWAITING MODERATION MEAN YOU HAVE CENSORED MY REMARKS-THEY WERE ONLY FACTS!!

    • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

      Yes Nanceee that’s what it means.

    • The Enemy

      Raymond: You always have good, factual commentary. Thanks for your contributions to this forum.

    • The Enemy

      nancee: You can be pretty provocative on these pages without getting censored. Be cool, but be to the point.

    • Richard William Faith

      Any comment worth printing is bound to be controversial, and many of my own comments have been moderated only later to be published without problems and without censorship. You probably just need to be patient.

    • Breezeyboy

      Something in your text flagged the moderator. It happened to me when I included a url in the text.

    • DeclareTruth

      Mary, where ever do you get the idea that God gives a baby a soul at birth? That’s not just a rhetorical question, I sure would like to know where that idea comes from, not the Bible, for sure. Jeremiah 1:5 says: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” How is a person known, sanctified and ordained BEFORE they have a soul? They can’t be, so therefore your theory about babies not having a soul cannot be true. Another Biblical example: When Mary, pregnant with Jesus, went to see her cousin Elizabeth, who was at the time pregnant with John the Baptist (Luke 1:44) Elizabeth said “For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.” A biological life with no soul doesn’t leap for joy!! Life begins at conception, period. Human life HAS a soul and spirit from the very beginning.

    • http://ATT WAYNE

      MARY DID YOU AGREE WITH ME AND ME NOT KNOW WHEN I WROTE MY COMMENT? I THINK THAT YOU AGREE AND I’M SORRY IF I WAS WRONG ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE. I THINK WE AGREE 100%. WAYNE

    • http://abortion Geraldine Rafferty

      Declare Truth, That’s right. The Parents create the body, God creates the soul. Thus breathing life into that body. The soul that God creates is the life giving principal.

    • Mary S

      Declare Truth…
      Probably the single most used passage that pro-life advocates use to support their erroneous beliefs is Jeremiah 1:5. Let’s examine that as well:
      “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. And before you were born I consecrated you”
      1. Where the pro-lifers are failing however, is in realizing that the verse has nothing to do with soul life in the womb. It has to do with divine omniscience. There are similar passages in the Bible which speak of God “knowing” certain people before the foundations of the world! Does this make the person a living breathing person before the foundation of the world! Of course not!
      2. God is “forming” Jeremiah in the womb. This is not BARA [soul creation, creation out of nothing] it is referring to the formation of Jeremiah’s physical body within the womb. We must absolutely learn to differentiate between physical and soul life! This is the point at which so many Christians are becoming confused and led astray. There is a difference!
      God gives soul life to every human being personally
      3. Many people make a point of the fact that Jeremiah is being “consecrated” (actually “sanctified”) in the womb. As another person so aptly pointed out to me, rich people enroll their children in the best schools while their children are still in the womb, but that does not make their child any more a human than them! In other words, to be objective, we must understand that you can be “sanctified” and not have a soul!
      As you can see it is imperative to understand that there is a difference between soul life and physical life
      Physical life generates in the womb automatically (of course in the context of God’s divine laws of creation, which Jesus Christ holds together by the word of his voice), and soul life is given by God at physical birth, when the baby takes its first breath. It must be made perfectly clear, however, that the Bible never condones abortion as a method of birth control.

    • Clete

      I’m wondering if God gave your forming body in the womb a soul, your interpretation of the passage is secular and out of ignorance of the essence of meaning of Gods word.

    • Mary S

      Declare Truth, most people make decisions on their emotions instead of the truth. Open your mind to thinking…
      Luke 1:15
      “For he (John the Baptist) will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother’s womb.” Luke 1:15 [NASB]

      “EK KOILIAS used again here is inadequately translated in verse 15, “in the womb”. KOILIAS is the ablative singular of KOILIA, “womb.” The ablative case preceded by the preposition EK denotes separation. EK must be understood as connoting separation: “out from” or “away from.” The phrase in question should be translated, “yet [in the future] separated from his mother’s womb.” Luke, the human author, is continuing the connotation of separation found with the use of MIBETEN in the Old Testament and EK KOILIAS in the LXX. In other words, the ablative of separation indicates John must be born before he can be empowered or endued by the Spirit.”
      Luke 1:41 and 1:44
      “And it came about that when Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” Luke 1:41
      “For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy” Luke 1:44
      The misunderstanding in the passages is that the baby seems to be responding in joy. Let’s use a little common sense here. Even if the baby was responding to Mary’s voice, and even if there was soul life in the womb, the action of a fetus responding in “joy” is not possible, logically. However, many Christians in an emotional overzealous state would love to ascribe developed characteristics of human joy to a developing fetus. However the verse does not imply that the baby heard Mary’s voice. It implies that Elizabeth heard her voice. Elizabeth then became excited, and the fetus responded due to the quickened pulse of Mary. We could then see that it is possible that Elizabeth is making a little joke with Mary about the baby responding “for joy”, but the context of the passage actually infers that it was Elizabeth’s “joy” that caused the baby to respond due to a neuromuscular response called “Moro” or startle reflex. (i.e. the word “for” in Luke 1:44 is better rendered “because of” in the Greek)

    • http://ATT WAYNE

      ABORTION IS 100% MURDER TOO! NO REASON IS EXCEPTABLE FOR KILLING AN INNOCENT. YOU CAN GIVE THE BABY UP FOR ADOPTION AT BIRTH. WAYNE

    • shadowwolf78

      Abortion is not murder. You keep saying it is. Except that I know the post would be deleted I could tell you, scientifically, exactly what a fetus is to the female body. Once again, you can have your beliefs all you want, but don’t attempt to force your beliefs upon the bodies and lives of others.

    • jug

      Oh, but it is!

    • Phil

      shadowwolf78, God says it is murder and His is the only opinion that counts or will ever count to me and pray others.

    • mtnmantn

      Why not? A woman that aborts is forcing her beliefs on an innocent child. It is not her body! If you were to take DNA from the baby (at any stage of developement) and compare it to the mother’s DNA, they would be different, hence it’s not her body. Yes, the baby is relying on her body for nourishment, but it is a separate body. Destroying it is murder!

    • mtnmantn

      Why not? A woman that aborts is forcing her beliefs on an innocent child. It is not her body! If you were to take DNA from the baby (at any stage of developement) and compare it to the mother’s DNA, they would be different, hence it’s not her body. Yes, the baby is relying on her body for nourishment, but it is a separate body. Destroying it is murder!

    • Lisa S

      Why is ending a life OK before birth, but its? Its only murder after birth?

    • cl

      Latin is not a dead language!!! Fetus is Latin for ‘little baby’. why would that be censored?

    • Shadowwolf78

      Definition of FETUS

      : an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

    • Rev. Kort Greene Jr

      Nothing justifies “ABORTION.” Rape and incest are bad but, the “baby” is “innocent.” We are not to destroy innocent blood. Read Psalms 127:3 and be enlightened, amen.

    • Ernest

      Wayne lets see your wife/daughter/girlfriend get gang raped and abused then turn up pregnant with many issues reminding her she is pregnant. If you ever see the devastation from it then put a woman through seeing the face of her attacker every day while raising said child, you may see a middle point somewhere. You can claim black and white, yet havent seen it. I have and I can tell you the lady I saw it happen to has had literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of therapy. She loves (now) her son and daughter, but in her sons face sees the rapists EVERY day. He knows and understands why he is here, her ex husband couldnt get over it and he wanted her to let kids be adopted but she couldnt. There has to be a meeting point.

    • http://patriotupdate.com Raymond

      Wrong again Mary S.

    • Margie Foster

      Mary, Mary, Mary, you are one confused person. As soon as a “fetus”, as you like to call it, has come to be, a soul and a spirit are in that little being. How do you think John in his mother Elizabeth knew when Mary walked in that The Saviour of the world was present? Surely you believe The Word……..

    • Mary S

      Margie, I truly believe the Word of God rather than man’s way of thinking. Jesus Christ came to die for human beings not a fetus that does not have soul life until God breathes into its nostrils the breath of life at birth. The fetus cannot sin until after birth.

    • Clete

      Your logic gives proof (not evidence but proof) your decision making process is more than just a little faulty.

    • Mary S

      No, Clete, it is the Word of God; not what people think. Use His Word and prove to me that abortion is wrong. I’ve heard the side you take and it is NOT Biblical. If more people would learn what the Bible teaches there would be less sex sinning in the first place including less raping if children were brought up in the Word of God — no forced on them but lived in front of them as well.

  • Helen

    Very few pregnancies are the result of rape.It is so sad that even though carrying this baby to term could be very hard on the mother it has to be realized the baby is also a victim. Just as much as the mother was a victim. The Christian answer would be to deliver the child and put it up for adoption. It does not deserve to die because of the selfish, uncaring, irresponsible,evil person who caused this pregnancy by violating the mother. And also remember the commandments of God which one say “Thou shalt not kill”. Abortion is murder. It is a human life that is being taken away by abortion.

  • Vicki

    Why do they want the most innocent amongst us to suffer the ultimate punishment for a crime they did not commit?

    The woman must endure ~9 mo of discomfort. The rapist should get 10-life but why is the child condemned to death?

  • ziegenfarm

    after doing a bit of research on my own, i’ve come to the conclusion that people use these extreme situations just to make a case. in reality, only 6-7% of all abortions performed involve rape, incest, health risk to mother or child, etc etc etc. that leaves 93% that are performed because someone did not take responsibility for their actions. for those of us who are pro-life, this 93% is what we are mainly objecting to…….not the extreme cases. not all, but most people would show compassion where a young girl had truly been traumatised and most people would be sensitive to real health risks. i just wish they would stop using extreme cases to justify the 93% of senseless, needless murders.

    • http://ATT WAYNE

      THAT MORNING AFTER PILL COULD BE GIVEN AT THE HOSPITAL WITHIN HOURS OF THE RAPE AND NO ABORTION WOULD BE NECESSARY.
      WAYNE

  • Ray W

    We are not God. Who are we to dictate what someone does within their own bodies. We have more than enough government in our lives. Do you have a clue as what happens when you make it illegal? The illegal clinics, crossing borders, people using coat hangers… you just don’t get it do you. Do you realize children’s brains are still developing up through their teens? They don’t fully understand consequences that impact their life. That is why PARENTS need to keep on top of them. Who are we to force a child into doing what you want them to do. I know folks who went through some very heart wrenching ordeals in deciding not to force a child to have a baby. And excuse the word, but I’d be damned if I would let anyone or any government force your wanted laws on anyone in my family.

    Mary S. I agree with you too.

    By the way, as conservative as I am, this is one issue that every woman I know has a problem with making it illegal. Most don’t speak out. And as for swing voters you’ll drive them to the left.

  • Shadowwolf78

    Agree or disagree it comes down to this. Are you the woman who is pregnant? No? Then you don’t have any say in the matter. This is what all my female friends have told me. And you know what? They’re right.

    • http://ATT WAYNE

      WELL IF SOMEONE DOES TO YOU WHAT YOU DO TO THEIR BABY???WONDER WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN THINKING WHEN THE ACID SQUIRTED INTO YOUR BRAIN. THEN THEY TORE OFF YOUR ARMS, LEGS,CRUSHED YOUR HEAD THEN DRUP YOU OUT???? WAYNE

    • BobinPa.

      Shadowwolf78- If what you are saying is true, then the same should apply to the death Penalty, If you have not had someone in your family or close to you murdered, then youshould not have a say in wether the death penalty is applied or not. It should be up to the Victims family, not yours or anyone elses.This is why all this political correctness and soft wimpy FEELINGS have hurt society in general. How many murders/Abortions are committed each day, and how many desth penalties are carried out. Pennsylvania WAS a desth penalty state, they haven’t carried out a death penalty in decades.

    • Jackie

      Who gets to speak for the unborn child?

    • shadowwolf78

      The mother of said child.

  • CT3PO

    “…do we take a life to solve a problem” is exactly the point of this demoralizing and desensitizing of this generation. That is how we have a bunch of children on Wall Street saying things like “let’s eat them”, “Gay kids don’t kill yourself kill your parents”, and putting a banker’s fake head on a pole. We have only begun to see the taking of life to solve a “liberal” perceived problem in this world. Get right with Jesus is all I can say.

  • JORGE

    I have been listening to these rhetorical remarks for seems like forever and still I come to the same conlcusion, there are too many do-gooders and big-nosey jerks trying to legislate morality. Sure everyone thinks taking a human life is wrong, myself included. If all of these nosey, loathsome people would just mind their own business I think the problem would fix itself. People have to face their own demons and also enjoy their blessings. I say that all of the “pinheads” mentioned above had a life they wouldn’t have time to get involved in evryone elses lives.

  • http://ATT WAYNE

    MARY,

  • http://ATT WAYNE

    MARY, I’LL GET THIS RIGHT IN A MINUTE I GUESS. NO WE DIDN’T AGREE. I READ DECLARE THE TRUTHS COMMENT AND THOUGHT YOU ADDED TO YOURS. NO WE DO NOT AGREE. YOU CAN READ ABOUT THIS IN THE BIBLE. WAYNE

  • http://ATT WAYNE

    LATER FOLKS

  • salcoh

    All of you who are saying it is the mothers choice to decide whether to abort or not are missing the whole point of the argument. There is another person who needs to be asked whether they want to live or die : The baby. I am sure if the baby were asked and had the ability to respond their choice would be to live. Enough said

  • Dave

    It is no one’s business
    But the Mother’s and/or her family-PERIOD! NO ONE has the right to tell her what to do or not do. If you do not want an abortion, do not have one. But DO NOT try to impart YOUR views on someone else! You do NOT have that right! Not sure that I could do it, but I FIRMLY believe in the RIGHT of someone else to make THEIR OWN decision that effects THEIR life. NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

    • Frank

      Sorry Dave, the unborn baby is also a person with rights. You have no right to murder it! We have a nation full of murderers, and God will bring His Judgement on us for that evil… in fact, our upcoming economic collapse is part of that Judgement.

    • Shadowwolf78

      You are not a woman. You do not have the requisite parts. You do not have a say. Sorry Frank, but that’s the truth of the matter. In the end the decision comes down to the woman affected and no one else.

    • Frank

      1. The woman needs assistance to have her abortion. No doctor should agree to this.
      2. Doesn’t the unborn child have a say or have rights?
      3. Ultimately God has a say.

    • Shadowwolf78

      1. What assistance? A woman only needs the personal reason (whatever that may be), and a place for the procedure to be performed.
      2. The mother has the say about the unborn child. If you say the unborn child has rights, then I say let us find some way to communicate with said unborn child and ask it directly. Until then the choice and responsibility is in the hands of the mother.
      3. christianity isn’t the only religion. So which “God”, as you put it, is the one that is going to have a say? What about a Hindu woman, or a Shinto woman, or any of the multitude of other religions where there christian god isn’t there?.

    • Mary S

      God will not bring judgment down on us just because of so many abortions. God will judge this Nation because most people have turned away from Him and His Word. Abortion should never be used as birth control but it is NOT murder and those that have had an abortion should NOT be made to feel guilty and have a big letter “A” hung around their neck by arrogant, self righteous judgmental hypocrites who do plenty of sinning themselves. Live and let live and let God judge and NOT sinful man when it comes to what to do with one’s own body.

    • Clete

      To bad your mother didn’t believe in abortion.

    • Frank

      I see how compassionate a person you are!

  • Shir

    Absolutely not! Abortion is not justified under any circumstance! A woman does have the right to choose…but that right ends when there is another life to consider! I was the product of rape. Had my mother not believed in the sanctity of life, I would not be here!

  • Frank

    Rape does not justify abortion. Doctors used to take the Hippocratic Oath (I took it when I graduated both from medical school & residency in Internal Medicine) “to never do harm to anyone” and to not “cause an abortion.” Doctors no longer take this oath because is is politically incorrect on abortion. Even the pagan ancient Greeks had more common sense than the people living today. Shame on us all! At least I have tried to stop abortion, although in vain so far!

    • Shadowwolf78

      Speaking as a pagan…In old times, this includes biblical times, there was abortion, however it wasn’t a surgery. It was things like a tea made out of certain roots that caused the body to abort the fetus. This was a fairly common and socially acceptable thing that women did in old times. Why? Because if you’re a farmer, and you already have say 4 children, it’s possible you don’t produce enough food to feed a 5th. So instead of letting the baby be born and then starving to death before it’s 2nd or 3rd birthday, they’d go to their local apothecary, get a tea made, drink it, suffer for a couple of days as the body flushes the fetus from it, and then it would all be fine. There’s a reason why abortion is not mentioned in the bible. And it’s because it was considered a common thing that was done. Some people are going to claim that it is mentioned and I challenge them. Show me one passage where abortion is specifically mentioned, such as the ones where theft, or lust, or murder are mentioned.

    • Frank

      1. Read the Hippocratic Oath. Inducing an abortion at that time did not involve giving a special tea to a pregnant woman. It involved a procedure.
      2. Yes, the word abortion is not found in the Bible. But Biblical principals can be implied. When Elizabeth (pregnant with the future John the Baptist) met the Virgin Mary (pregnant with the future Messiah, Jesus), the baby in Elizabeth leaped for joy (Luke 1:44). This indicates that the unborn John was saved in his mother’s womb & glad to be in the presence of his Savior. This clearly shows unborn babies are persons that that have minds that can be aware & souls that can be saved from before birth.
      3. Sorry you are a pagan, I’ll pray for you like I pray for all unsaved people and our failing nation

    • Shadowwolf78

      Your justifications lack logic, scientific proof, and really any form of true reason Frank. And don’t be sorry for me. I used to be christian, but then found the path that most felt right. No matter how much you try you won’t shove a square peg into a round hole without changing it. I decided to find a square hole. :)

    • Shadowwolf78

      I also forgot to mention historical fact and research that your statement lacks.

    • Donna

      Frank, you have so many opinions on here about abortion. Number one, you are not a woman! It is always men who can or want to tell a woman what to do with her body. Secondly, am I for abortion NO! I am not to sure how I would feel if I had a 12 or 13 yo that was raped and was preg. Not being a woman, you don’t stop and think about the emotional issues women go through just being preg much less carrying a baby that was concieved through rape. As an adult woman I may be able to tolerate a preg from rape, but I don’t THINK I could watch my little girl go through something like that. I think it would all depend on her state of mind. Again, as a man you will never know how a girl child would be affected the rest of her life if made to carry an attackers child to term. I just get annoyed at your stupid posts that try and tell a woman what to do. Also whenit is not rape, how many men step up to the plate and pay for the next 18 years for this child…hardly any! You take what you want from a woman, then talk about her like a dog, and leave her with a child to raise!!!! You need a reality check!

    • Frank

      1. I have only 1 opinion here about abortion: it is wrong.
      2. That opinion is based primarily on Biblical principles (see my post above which states that the word abortion is not found in the Bible & thus an opinion on it must be implied by what the Bible reveals).
      3. Having sadly assisted once in a late term abortion as part of my medical training, I was horrified to see how clearly human were the parts of the aborted baby & horrified again when the head surgeon after the procedure said coldly to me, “How does it feel to now be a murderer!?” That day I realized how evil abortion was, repented of my sin & asked for forgiveness.
      4. This world is full of sin, death & hard choices.

  • The Gizmo51

    Too bad boys and men can’t get pregnant by rape and be forced to drop out of school, go on welfare and food stamps so they can feed, clothe, and raise a child that daily reminds them of a near death experience. Maybe more men would feel some compassion for the victim?

    • Frank

      Come on, get real. Lots of women have initially unwanted babies, then still get a job, have a great career. No one forces them to stay home on food stamps the rest of their lives. That’s liberal nonsense!! In fact, the women I know who wound up with unplanned/unwanted babies ended up doing very well in life & were VERY HAPPY they avoided abortion and love their unplanned child very much!!

      You are very mistaken Dave. You are part of America’s illness, not its cure.

    • Mary S

      Frank, that is NOT always the case.

    • BobinPa.

      That is exactly WHT a Rapist should face the Death Penalty. And it used to be when people had guts, they did face the Death Penalty. And NOT after sitting around in a cell for Decades while some Law School Graduate got rich pushing his appeals. If a woman is raped and is pregnant, and the rapist is cauught and DNA Proves he is the Rapist, Execute the POS in the same week.

  • The Enemy

    How about this: The government takes a neutral position on abortion and abolishes all public funding of such. Let the decisions about abortion rest upon the mother, her God (if any) and her family. The less governmnent involvement in our personal lives, the better.

  • Ray

    I couldn’t imagine considering getting an abortion, but then again I’m not a woman so there are many related things that I can’t imagine. One thing that has always bothered me about the whole discussion though is that the pro-life side always uses terms like “baby, human, individual, and murder” when it’s not yet a baby, human, or individual and therefore it is not murder. It’s a fetus with the potential to become a baby/human, and if that does in fact occur, then it would be murder. If taking steps to prevent a fetus from becoming a child is wrong, then so must the steps which prevent the living sperm and eggs from reaching their potential, I see a very fine line between birth control and early stages of abortion. As far as the rape/incest issue, what a joke….if using abortion like birth control is murder (and I’ve know people like that) then the circumstances that caused the pregnancy does not matter.

    • Clete

      Even during the hearing to determine the feds involvement in abortion the Doctors testified life began at conception, your point of view is unsubstantiated and is invalid, the really good thing about the truth is whether you believe it or not it‘s still the truth!

  • William

    If we keep giving up our freedom to choose then we will have neither, freedom or choice!

    • Clete

      There should be no freedom to arbitrarily take an innocents life

    • BobinPa.

      What are you saying??. Are you saying we should be FREE to Commit Murder??Making it Illegal to Murder a baby in the womb is NOT taking away our Freedom.

  • bonnie

    it really makes me angry that Rep Stupak sold his groups votes for obamacare for some 800 million $ in exchange for non-government funds being used for abortions. i wonder if he can look at himself in the mirror at night? the piece of paper called “excutive order” was a FARCE

  • http://www.seekerstemple.com Bert

    What if Obama was aborted? Yeah U.S., that’s what.
    What about the Dicremination of forcing a woman to have a child she dosn’t want?
    If abortion is “murder”, then so is birth control and masturbation.
    Do we really want 3700 unwanted children a day?
    If you don’t want an abortion, don’t get one, but don’t tell others they can’t get one.

    • BobinPa.

      Do we really want to MURDER 3700 unborn babies a day in the womb???. You sound like you approve of Abortion used as Birth Control. This is why peoples tax money should NEVER under any circumstances be used for an abortion. Period.

  • Terry

    A couple of mistakes that they are making. 1) there was no holocaust. The whole concept of the holocaust was formulated by the pig jews who are the real murderers in our country and in the world. Abortion is a Jewish thing, and they want to destroy Israel which is the white Caucasian, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Scandinavian, and kindred peoples. Also, the first slaves in America were white not black. In fact it is the white race that were mistreated a lot worse than blacks every were. After the Civil War, it was hordes of blacks that raped white women. That is what they do. Very few rapes have ever been done by whites. White’s don’t rape, blacks and hispanics do. The jews are the instigators of homosexuality, abortion, pornography, and so forth. It was the whites that went out of their way to stop all this. Hitler stopped the jews from destroying all of Europe, whites stopped slasvery. However, the first slaves of black people are black. In fact the first to own a black slave for life in the colonies was a black man. Blacks, like Indians, are known for slavery. However, whites are not.

    • Wavey

      If ever a comment cried out for censorship, it is this one. Sheesh.

    • Wlmitch1

      Are you a racist, or are you a Leftist plant pretending to be a racist in order to discredit us Constitutional Conservatives? Jesus was a Jew from the Israelite tribe of Juda. Get over it!

  • heylottylotty

    So, where does “life” begin??? Shouldn’t it be at conception?? If so, wouldn’t birth control prevent God’s plan which would be the same as abortion?? At one time Life was considered to be at the baby’s first breath. Then it was the end of the 2nd trimester, then…. now it is said it takes a “heart beat” to determine life. Who gets to make the rules? Is it the raped woman who was taken by several men? Is it the child that was abused and raped by an adult? Or is it the women who don’t go through the anguish? Is it the wealthy who can pay for the care and know how to get medical and psycological help (and have the money). Women with professions are judging that a child of 10 who is raped must bear the horror of ridicule by peers and the pain of being forced to grow up at 10? The sanitized approach is much too finite. Lets not trash an existing life to cause one.

  • Wlmitch1

    THE CASE AGAINST ABORTION

    by William L. Mitchell

    November 06, 2011

    Abortionists use “The Other Side of Midnight” as propaganda to promote Abortion. The Other Side of Midnight was a 1977 movie, based on a 1973 work of FICTION with the same name. The novel was taken out of context by the abortionists to make it appear factual. This is exactly how evildoers twist things to make evil seem good.

    The Natural Law states that life begins at conception, thus abortion is unnatural. Some Christians will say that the form of breast cancer suffered by women who have had one or more abortions is God’s punishment for having had the abortion(s). The Catholic Church and other Christian Churches recognize the Natural Law as being valid. As a Catholic Christian, I believe that when one violates the Natural Law by committing unnatural acts, nature will defend itself. God simply allows nature to take its course. That is why the Bible and the Churches teach that it is a sin to commit an unnatural act. Thus, abortion is evil because it is the sin of murder.

    The U.S. Declaration of Independence also recognizes the Natural Law as being valid. As the Declaration states that we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, amongst those being the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then that would also apply to unborn babies due to recognition of the Natural Law in our Declaration of Independence. Thus, abortion is unconstitutional because the Constitution is based upon the Declaration of Independence. The Fifth Amendment in the Bill of Rights also applies, because one must be accused of a capital crime, given a fair trial, and duly convicted of said crime before being put to death. An unborn baby is not capable of committing any type of crime, thus an accusation of a capital crime against an unborn baby is obviously ridiculous. Therefore, abortion violates the Due Process clause of the Fifth Amendment.

    CASE IN POINT: I am physically capable of killing someone with my bare hands. So then, if I have the right to choose to do whatever I want with my own body, then I have a right to use my own body to kill someone, right? WRONG! The same applies to the killing of an unborn baby a.k.a. abortion. Both are acts of murder.

    Following the above logic, and the example in my case in point, the argument in favor of abortion unravels very quickly indeed! There are only two acceptable reasons to terminate a pregnancy. One is to save the life or the physical health of the mother, provided that labor is induced and all reasonable measures are taken to save the life of the baby as well, once the baby is outside the womb. The other is the tragic event in which the baby has died inside the womb and something is preventing labor from occurring.

    Abortion is feticide (foeticide in International English), and a form of prolicide. Infanticide is also a form of prolicide. Please see the following definitions:

    feticide: noun. 1. Law – The felonious killing of an unborn child. 2. The intentional production of an abortion. Also spelled foeticide. From the Latin: fetus — fetus + CIDE (to kill).

    prolicide: noun. The crime of killing of one’s own child before or after birth; infanticide.
    From the Latin: proles — offspring + CIDE (to kill).

    From the 1959 Edition of the BRITANNICA WORLD LANGUAGE Edition of
    Funk & Wagnalls Standard DICTIONARY.

    In the dictionaries published in that era, a definition after a semicolon was used as a specific example of a more general definition.

    In the human species, a fetus is an unborn baby of two or more months of gestation in the womb. An embryo is
    an unborn baby of less than two months of gestation. Because the Natural Law states that life begins at conception (the moment when an egg cell is fertilized by a sperm cell), the killing of a human embryo is also unnatural.

    Currently, there is no specific word for the killing of a human embryo, so I will coin one:

    embryicide: noun. 1. The killing of a pre-fetal unborn child. Prolicide in its
    earliest form. 2. The intentional production of an abortion at the embryonic stage.
    From the Med. Latin: embry? — embryo + CIDE (to kill).

    • CT3PO

      Awesome! Shame liberals will deny this statement because it is logical, and truthful. There are no emotions involved, and liberals can’t follow cerebral logic, or God’s natural truth. Progressives only follow what emotionally sounds good to man, but leads to destruction.

      Let him with ears hear, and eyes see.

  • DrRGPerrin

    On the central question–shouldn’t that depend on the on the carefully weighed wishes of the woman raped? What other reasonable answer is there?

    • Katy

      They women raped has had a horrible experience that has nothin to do with the child conceived. Murder is murder and it should never be a choice except in the case of seld defence

    • Katy

      They women raped has had a horrible experience that has nothin to do with the child conceived. Murder is murder and it should never be a choice except in the case of self defence

    • zagozana

      Our purpose on Earth is to ascend spiritually. Our bodies are not US. They are only containers for the spirit. A fetus, especially, one that is not viable, within the first trimester, should be the right of those who have to go through with it. Some on the right are so mistaken that they think even a fertalized ege has equal rights to an adult. Remember, you guys are for a smaller, less controling government. This is the dirrect opposite of that insistance.
      Our bodies are but vessiles for the soul. Once born it is imparative that these young lives are nurtured, and encouraged instead of seen as soldiers and consumers.

    • Madeline

      A woman who has been raped has been horribly violated. A woman who has had an abortion is also a victim of a horrible violation, not only of the unborn child but of herself. Have you ever seen a woman proudly boast of her abortion? Most women who have undergone an abortion have suffered greatly for it from guilt. For a woman who is pregnant as a result of a rape to have an abortion is to have been violated twice. Horrible as the rape is this woman will have to live with the fact that she took a human life – her own childs – for the rest of her life.

    • grannyb

      I was date raped. Carried this child till the due date & came forth from me was a little girl.6 lbs & 11 ounces. Thie fellow wanted me to have an abortion & I said no.He joined the army to get out of supporting this child , but smart me went after him for support.She was supported for a full 18 years of her life. He was from Scotland. He was given the so called honor of walking by the tomb of the Unknown solder in Wash. When I heard about this I contacted his commanding officer & related the story & had that honor taken away from him.He also made another girl pregnant which I found out about when I was 6 months pregnant with his child.So his life was not a well organized way of life as it should have been

  • Phil

    Rape is unlawful!! Murder is unlawful!! Both are unlawful by God and on the books of our nation. They are both crimes and they are both sin. In the case of rape and in the case of murder NO they are not acceptable to commit. They are both traumatizing events, hpwever we cannot condone yet another sin to correct the original wrong. We need to get back to vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay. AND God will repay, when we don’t take it on ourselves to repay.

    • http://talktalk johnny h

      Perhaps we could take all the heat out of the abortion issue if religion recused itself from the argument.
      After all, one god is quoted as against abortion whilst another State religioun allows men to rape women.
      Is the former or the latter the “Word of God”!!
      As a believer in my early years, and a sceptic in the autumn of my life, I am of the opinion that it should be up to the woman (or girl) to decide!
      After all, in the Bible, the Romans crucified Jesus, so should the USA have crucifixion as its “chosen” means of death penalty??(even though it is deemed cruel and unusual punishment, and thus against US LAws)?
      All the “pro life” AND the anti abortion pressure groups should BUTT OUT!!
      If women are indeed equal, and THAT is not in dispute, those who would instruct her or deny her in her own decision on this topic must all be of the opinion that women have NO rights and must be under the control of others in their own body!!
      A sad case indeed in the 21st Century.
      (Which Church will stand forward and agree that they are the ones who have the right to tell women how they should decide on this most personal of decisions??)
      If there is one, let them stand forward and be condemned! (For the Lord would not condemn).

    • rocky

      You are an idot. A lost soul. You are justifing distruction of God’s work by saying it’s okay to distroy it. It didn’t have any rights. Like it is nothing. An absess. We are so far from God right now this country has no idea. The reflection of our government is the reflection of the absence of God in everyone’s life. Man does not create truth, honor, and right, God does. We are hear to defend and live it in the joy he hoped would come with freedom and living for him.

    • daves

      God gave us the ability to decide for ourselves. You seem to want to use man’s laws to take the freedom that God gave us away. Does this mean you know better than God?

    • Breezeyboy

      God gave us freedom to choose any of many possible goods. He did not give us a license to do evil. Some choices are so evil that, yes, government is obligated to interfere.

  • CHERI

    Finally, the TRUTH is being told on abortion!! Thank you ladies, keep it up!! As the mother of a BEAUTIFUL daughter with Down syndrome, I was a part of one of the protests in Illinois at Christ Hospital, protesting LIVE BIRTH ABORTION. ALL abortion is an abomination, no question about it!!!

  • gustave verdult

    MURDER IT IS…. Deceive yourself all you want, it is still murder.

  • paul

    The most amazing aspects of this debate is that people always argue the point, a womans right to decide. This is true and undeniable. Amazingly though is the fact that these same people don`t agree that somonelse looses their right to life because some believes there right trumps anothers.

  • Carol Goodwin

    Any life that may have been created is innocent and if you decide you don’t want or cannot afford to raise him or her, give birth and adopt the child out.
    No child should have to die because of what a rapist did.

    • Richard William Faith

      First and foremost, let me introduce myself as one who opposes abortion, and who most particularly opposes the (AB-)use of abortion as a means of birth control, population control or ethnicity proportion control. Furthermore, I am a consistent pro-life, anti-abortion voter. NOW ON THE OTHER HAND, I am the father of three daughters, of whom (Thank God) NONE has ever been raped. From this vantage point, I consider it unconscionable that any girl or woman should EVER be FORCED by any PERSON or any AGENCY or any LAW to carry TO TERM the baby of a RAPIST. Yes, it’s still murder. If the rapist ever gets caught, the rapist himself should be LIABLE FOR THE PERPETRATION OF THAT PARTICULAR MURDER, AS A SEPARATE AND ADDITIONAL CRIME BESIDES THE RAPE ITSELF, AND SEPARATELY AND ADDITIONALLY PUNISHABLE AS SUCH. After all, it was HIS DECISION, and NO ONE ELSE’S decision, to INITIATE a life DESTINED TO BE ENDED BY ABORTION. The FATHER (rapist!) IS the murderer!

    • Dor

      AGREED!!! Abortion should never be used as a means of birth control. There are many types of birth control available. There are clinics for those who cannot afford it. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant,or the pregnancy is a result of incest, the woman should have the right to choose what she wants to do. For those of you who bring the bible into this, a baby is supposed to be a gift from God, created from love by two people. Rape is an act of violence, NOT LOVE! The abortion should take place in the 1st trimester.

    • Breezeyboy

      All babies are gifts from God, even if the parents are imperfect or even if one of them is a rapist. Nobody is created in perfect circumstances.

  • Papa SKWE-G

    Life is Life no matter how it began; …murder, when performed & executed,will always come down to one thing…ending life. All the “But, What Ifs?” are mostly ‘smoke and mirrors’ excuses.

  • meh-GID-oh

    Life in the womb begins at the moment of conception. This life, like all human life, should be respected as a gift from God. Human beings are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27); Children are a blessing from God (Psalm 127:3); Life is sacred to God, we are commanded not to murder (Exodus 20:13). No life is to be take without justifiable reason. God is the Creator and giver of life. Only He has the sovereign right to take life away. The same God whose mind and power fashioned the stars, the seas, the animals, and all other human beings has carefully, intentionally, and individually crafted you. That means you are unique. No one else has been given exactly the same makeup as God has give you.

    • Mary S

      There is no human (soul) life in the womb; only biological life that does not have a soul until God breaths life into the fetus as it immerges from the womb. Jesus Christ died on the cross for human beings with a sin nature; not a fetus that cannot sin.

    • Frank

      What makes you think that the soul is given at birth???? You are not God! We must respect human life and as you said it is human life! Also, you said that the fetus cannot sin. This is probably true and is it not also true that a baby cannot sin!

    • daves

      In your opinion, how old must a person be before they can sin?

  • Bill Weston

    Why punish the innocent, namely the child and the mother, for the perpetrators acts. The concieved child is as much a victim as the mother to be. Give the perpetrator a fair trial and punish him if found guilty. Counseling and adoption, if desired, is available as an alternative for the victims. This is the best that mankind can do. The rest is up to God.

    • daves

      Can you imagine what it would be like to be reminded of your rape every time you see your child smile or cry?

    • daves

      It is easy to talk about but I bet even some of these women would change their minds if it happened to them.

    • daves

      I have a friend that was raped when she was 14. She hid the pregnancy from her parents for 8 months because of the shame she felt. She had the child and gave it up for adoption.

    • Breezeyboy

      A nun was raped in Serbia during the conflict there. She got pregnant and had the baby.

      @Daves: would you want to be aborted? Then stop advocating it.

    • Kevin

      He didn’t advocate abortion. He said that it is not fair to remove the choice from women who have had to suffer through a rape. Women who have been raped should have the right to decide what they are able to handle when it comes to a pregnancy. There are many examples of women who were able to go through with the pregnancy, and I applaud them. But not every woman can do that. It is naive to believe that they can.

  • PROPHECYALERT1

    Under those situations which are terrible there will be those with confusion and doubt what to do but” who wants to be first telling the God, and the Lord Jesus Christ they made a mistake in their laws and that obortion is an obominatio period di he make any exceptions NO! Those children could grow up still to be the citizens who truely change the world that is why criminals/idiots today kill them! STOP THE INSANITY !

  • Keegan’s Mum

    In the case of sexual assault, it is ONLY the woman who has been raped business to determine and decide on the abortion, adoption, and keeping the pregnancy option. I am not supporting either choice because I was violently raped and I certainly wasn’t going to adopt half of my DNA out to a childless couple when it’s God’s will that they shouldn’t be entrusted with a child in the first place. Same thought process that I am forced upon someone else’s beliefs. Everyone should mind their own business. Life is not easy. I’m an Overcomer and a Pastor.

    • Kevin

      You think that people with fertility issues are deemed by God to be inappropriate parents? Seriously? If God were marking people as bad parents, then how do you explain all of the parents who neglect their children and abuse their children? The children of drug addicts and alcoholics? Why does God allow them to have children? I am opposed to abortion, but I can’t see forcing a woman to take a child to term that is the product of a rape. That would be punishing a woman daily for nine months and then putting her through the agonizing decision of whether to raise the child or put it up for adoption. Why should any woman have to endure all of this?

  • http://Yahoo Dan Kinsman

    When stopping at a 7-11 store in Leominster,Ma. I met a woman working there who was impregnated as a result of rape.As we talked she revealed to me her choice to keep the baby even though she was a victim of rape and her husband agreed.As I looked at this woman’s face I could see she was touched by God for her choice because she had a look of holiness as though she was blessed by God for her choice to keep the child. It was like looking at the face of a saint.

    • daves

      That is a wonderful story and it is wonderful that the woman was able to make that decision herself instead of the rest of us telling her she had to do it.

  • Duane

    This is not, should not be a political subject. Quit trying to make everyone agree with your views. It is a womans right to chose…Period.

  • Duane

    and you politcal chicks have no right to tell anyone what to do. It is your view not everyone elses

  • Alabaster

    It’s easy to say until you’re the one holding the product of a heinous violation. Too, it’s easy to say until you realize you’ve taken a child’s life for something it had no say over. I think we all need to have a little prayer for forgiveness and understanding.

  • Judy Weaver

    Rape is a crime of violence. Rapists may well have the gene causing a person to perpetuate violent crimes over and over. That fetus may well carry that gene and become another violent criminal. Why would a woman choose to perpetuate that sort of inheritance in her family?
    A woman, and only that woman, should have the right to make such a decision. It’s not God who will feed that child, nor will any politician provide support for it. Women choose how many children they can afford to raise. If she did not choose to get pregnant based on her ability to raise a child, she should not be required to bear the burden of the seed of a criminal.
    I hope my own daughters never need to make such a decision, but I would support them in what they believed to be right for them.

  • Suzanne

    1- Abortion doesn’t erase the rape and the innocent child hasn’t committed a capital crime.
    2- The rape victim doesn’t have to raise the child and many couples would love to parent their baby.
    3- Many rape victims who aborted regret their decision and suffer not only the emotional and psychological consequences of rape but the deep regret of having killed their child.
    The victims of rape need care and loving support. Abortion doesn’t provide either.

    • Shadowwolf78

      For number 3. Please state/show proof of this statement.

  • http://talktalk johnny h

    With reference to the for and against groups which get all het up one way or another.

    Perhaps if they meditate upon what Life is they could come to a better decision than playing tug-o-war over a woman`s right to choose for herself.

    For everyone is in the “River of Life” everyone is but a tiny drop in that river, and everyone has to flow with that river, taking whatever the river gives to that drop as it passes from source to estuary.
    When that drop comes to the final estuary, and merges with the Sea of Spirit, every act will be relevent as a step on the way up the spiritual ladder.
    Those who interfere, for all the right reasons, Or wrong reasons, are by their actions deflecting a soul from its chosen path.
    THAT cannot be dressed up as the Word of God, or for that matter, Science!!
    Each individual must make their own choices, and live with them.
    Others who are “for” or “against” must reflect on their own progress and another small drop in the ocean of life!

  • Richard William Faith

    Making abortion absolutely go away would be a vast improvement over having rampant abortion as we do now, and making abortion illegal would certainly greatly reduce the incidence of it, although definitely not all the way to zero. What WOULD save the vast majority of aborted lives would be to make abortion illegal EXCEPT in cases of rape or incest, AND such a law would be MUCH EASIER TO PASS! How many babies have to DIE while we screw around trying to make the law PERFECT and agreeable to EVERYONE?

  • Richard William Faith

    It is pure folly to think that laws will change peoples’ hearts and move them to do the right thing. However, that is not the function of laws in the first place! Laws spell out what a society will or will not condone. Accordingly, no proposed law, no matter how morally correct it might be, will provide any effect for good or ill, until it is BOTH VOTED IN and THEN, ENFORCED. While the merits of allowing or disallowing exceptions for rape or incest continue to be debated, thousands of babies continue to be killed. If, on the other hand, the strict moralists among us would cut a little slack for victims of rape or incest, a law that greatly reduces the incidence of abortion could be PASSED and ENFORCED much sooner. Where is the MATH in letting the VAST MAJORITY of the potential abortion babies be killed while we “so nobly strive” to save the TINY MINORITY of them who exist because of rape or incest? Besides, if the exception for rape and incest pregnancies were allowed (so as to make passage of a very beneficial law much quicker and easier), the vast majority of the MONEY that currently goes into the abortion “industry” would be CUT OFF immediately, driving most or all the practitioners out of business. With no one around to PERFORM the abortions, perhaps many more of the babies due to rape would actually get a chance at survival. Pragmatism rules. Just as the Peter Principle states that a person WILL RISE TO HIS OWN LEVEL OF INCOMPETENCY, it follows that someone who lacks the intelligence to be a pragmatist WILL end up as a legislator or a politician, and therein lies the problem.

  • David Schiller

    I personally am against abortion ! BUT I don’t believe I have the right to force a women to have a baby that was conceived thru rape or incest ! If a women is using it as a form of BIRTH CONTROL, that is completely different. If a women gets pregnant more than once and is not married, she should be sterilized ! AND if a man fathers more than 1 child without being married, HE SHOULD be STERILIZED !! I believe we as a society owe the help to the women raped or impregnated thru incest !

    Dave

  • Nancy Sternberg

    My daughter has told me. “Mom I wouldn’t do it even if I was raped. She is very much pro-life.

  • Pete0097

    For too many women, the child of a rape reminds them of the evil man for the rest of their lives. It is a continuous punishment forever. Conversely, some women will love the child in spite of what happened. It shoulde not be up to men to decide but what the woman is capable of bearing.

  • Billie

    I would never have an abortion, but I remember in the ’60s when young women would go across the state line to a town & there in a dingy room an abortion was performed with a coat hanger. A lot of women got infections and died. Let’s not return to those days.

  • Ernest

    As a thinking, reasoning, God fearing human being I have seen what rape does to a woman, I also saw a woman FORCED to have the child after rape, THEN forced to hold it and then give it away without being able to make a choice at the time of birth.
    Now, as a human with cognitive powers I see specific reasons to allow an abortion, early on (as in up to a specific time as to when it could be born and live as a premie) allow abortion on rule of incest and rape. Documented cases of rape and incest and in extreme health circumstances allow it. allow non and you will still see back door abortions and women having and dying from them.

  • Phyllis

    There is a wonderful book which I read many years ago, about a woman who was raped, had the baby and put her up for adoption. Years later, when the daughter was in her 20s, they found each other–the daughter was a Christian, and wanted her “birth” mother to know that. The daughter looked exactly like the mother!! They went around to speak to groups–to try to influence women in that situation to keep the baby! I think the title was something about “a missing piece of the puzzle.”

  • Ricky

    You all miss the point, to kill a baby is murder, so in many of your opinions if someone commits a crime against a woman it make it legal for that woman to commit a crime against another person. Punish the offender not an innocent person. As emotional as women are I for one do not support giving women the right to murder.

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